I've Never Made That Call Before...

[Texasbock]

With all due respect Bretman, this seems like over umpiring to me. I don't know about your fall league in Ohio, but all the fall ball league experiences I have had in SE Texas, the leagues were instructional in nature and not to be officiated like a National tournament.......

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Texasbock

With all due respect Bretman, this seems like over umpiring to me. I don't know about your fall league in Ohio, but all the fall ball league experiences I have had in SE Texas, the leagues were instructional in nature and not to be officiated like a National tournament.......

I disagree. Keeping the pitcher within his/her limits keeps the game moving, as pointed out earlier. It also keeps the pitchers from getting surprised when they DO go to a State, Regional or National. Maybe a warning may be better in the lower leagues, but the rule should not be ignored.

When I was a kid, I played in a tournament under ASA rules. The league I played in allowed us 5 warm-ups the first inning, 3 each subsequent. Fortunately, the plate umpire at the tourney said to me in the first inning, "you get 3, pitcher." I was surprised, and I asked her, "don't I get 5?" "Nope, must be a local rule." "Oh. Okay!"

I was glad she didn't keep a silent count. Then again, we stomped that team 16-0 anyway.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Texasbock

With all due respect Bretman, this seems like over umpiring to me. I don't know about your fall league in Ohio, but all the fall ball league experiences I have had in SE Texas, the leagues were instructional in nature and not to be officiated like a National tournament.......

I won't confine my observations to just "fall ball". The lag between innings is a year-round occurance.

Why can't the "instructional in nature" extend to teaching the teams the expected behavior between innings and the rules that should be enforced during their "real" games that count?

I hear that a lot- "It's only fall ball". Sure, maybe the games are more laid back and than your typical travel ball tournament, but I don't see that as an excuse for an umpire to throw good game management and rule enforcement out the window.

Again, I will note that the "between inning" conduct for this league was a point of emphasis by the league organizers. All of the coaches received written instruction to this effect with their league rules. We have been asked to cover this with coaches at the pre-game conference. The folks that run the league- ie: pay our salary- have requested that the umpires enforce these rules to minimize downtime and field scheduling issues, while maximizing playing time for the participants.

In light of all that, if I just ignored those directives, because "It's only fall ball", that would strike me as a bad case of under-umpiring.

[Texasbock]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I won't confine my observations to just "fall ball". The lag between innings is a year-round occurance.

Why can't the "instructional in nature" extend to teaching the teams the expected behavior between innings and the rules that should be enforced during their "real" games that count?

They can. Imagine calling 10-C ball where half the girls have never played the sport before and where scores aren't kept. Would it be proper to enforce such a rule under that circumstance?

I hear that a lot- "It's only fall ball". Sure, maybe the games are more laid back and than your typical travel ball tournament, but I don't see that as an excuse for an umpire to throw good game management and rule enforcement out the window.

I would probably agree with you if I was officiating in your environment. The point that I was trying to make is that there are times only within the context of fall ball at other venues where enforcing of the hard line rules is not warranted.

Again, I will note that the "between inning" conduct for this league was a point of emphasis by the league organizers. All of the coaches received written instruction to this effect with their league rules. We have been asked to cover this with coaches at the pre-game conference. The folks that run the league- ie: pay our salary- have requested that the umpires enforce these rules to minimize downtime and field scheduling issues, while maximizing playing time for the participants.


In light of all that, if I just ignored those directives, because "It's only fall ball", that would strike me as a bad case of under-umpiring.

I would agree with you. If you went over these things in pre-game and they defied you, then you would have every right in the world to enforce the rule"

[Dakota]

Those of you who do not favor enforcing the timing rules in instructional / fall / rec games, remember this: these games are timed, and the players will get precious few times in the field and at bats as it is. By enforcing the timing rules, you are maximizing the playing time (the reason both teams are there) and minimizing the lollygagging time.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Those of you who do not favor enforcing the timing rules in instructional / fall / rec games, remember this: these games are timed, and the players will get precious few times in the field and at bats as it is. By enforcing the timing rules, you are maximizing the playing time (the reason both teams are there) and minimizing the lollygagging time.

I do three fall ballgames every Monday night. Tonight, twice I had to enforce
the "6th" warm up pitch rule, calling a ball on the batter. Once the ten second
rule on the batter after the pitcher having the ball. All the coaches involved
in this group want all the rules enforced as a learning tool for these players,
most of which will be first time high schoolers.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

I do three fall ballgames every Monday night. Tonight, twice I had to enforce the "6th" warm up pitch rule, calling a ball on the batter. Once the ten second rule on the batter after the pitcher having the ball. All the coaches involved in this group want all the rules enforced as a learning tool for these players, most of which will be first time high schoolers.

Gawd, I had my butt chewed by some muckety mucks a couple weeks ago for enforcing the 10 second rule. "C'mon John, it's only fall ball!" Wait til I tell them I'm not the only one

Note to TexasBock: would that be Shiner Bock? If so, plz send BBQ immediately. If not, plz send BBQ anyway.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

I do three fall ballgames every Monday night. Tonight, twice I had to enforce
the "6th" warm up pitch rule, calling a ball on the batter. Once the ten second
rule on the batter after the pitcher having the ball. All the coaches involved
in this group want all the rules enforced as a learning tool for these players,
most of which will be first time high schoolers.

Seems to me some preventative umpiring would have preventing your likely bologna calls.

Tell the catcher, take it down on 3 (or 4)... and you dont have the problem. Focus on the 1 minute, not the 5 pitches.

60 seconds.. forget that 5 pitch deal after the top of the 1st. They are not getting in more that 3-4 pitches in 60 seconds.. and you should not be standing their picking your nose waiting for them to throw it a 6th time so you can get a ball on the batter. Be on that from jump and keep the game moving and stop goofing off.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Texasbock

With all due respect Bretman, this seems like over umpiring to me. I don't know about your fall league in Ohio, but all the fall ball league experiences I have had in SE Texas, the leagues were instructional in nature and not to be officiated like a National tournament.......

Well I for one agree, well partially I agree Fall ball is more of a fun learning experience. One that Bretman did a great job of teaching, teaching the catcher she can't mess around in the dugout and expect to get extra pitches so she can throw one down like she wants to. She also learned she can't overrule an umpires directions without concequence. She learned both of these things in the calm learning environment of Fall ball where it made no difference (in the game, or world as fall ball is "for fun") and didnt' cost her team a run at the state championship. Granted this scenerio is not likely to ever cost someone the game, but I personally feel that fall ball is 100% the time to enforce these types of rules and to let people know about things in a more relaxed learning environment where you can say "catch, you know you can't do that..." and they will laugh it off BUT will learn a lesson where it doesn't change the earths rotation, or at least players coaches and parents feel like it does when we call this during "regular" or post season.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Granted this scenerio is not likely to ever cost someone the game, but I personally feel that fall ball is 100% the time to enforce these types of rules and to let people know about things in a more relaxed learning environment where you can say "catch, you know you can't do that..." and they will laugh it off BUT will learn a lesson where it doesn't change the earths rotation, or at least players coaches and parents feel like it does when we call this during "regular" or post season.

Yeah, tell that to Wade... Poor guy...