Stupid Local Rule

[BretMan]

Stupid rules and local rules go hand-in-hand. But, the men's fastpitch league where I play has adopted what has to be the number one stupidest rule in the history of stupid local rules.

We play by ASA rules- with modifications...lots of modifications. These modifications are proposed and voted on by league coaches during the off-season, each with their own agenda and each with varying degrees of cluelessness.

For instance, they allow a continuous batting order and free substitution on defense. That one's not so bad, as it does promote participation in what is, essentially, a recreational league.

They use four outfielders. Odd for fastpitch, but since we play on unfenced fields it does provide some degree of balance between offense and defense. Up until about 10 years ago, this league was for 30-and-over players only, and that played into the four outfielders rule. Since opening up the league to all ages, the rule has been retained. Not the stupidest of rules- just different.

The wise and all-knowing powers that be have made batting helmets optional. Not the smartest of rules, but still not their stupidest. You do have some stupid players that forego the helmet though. I always wear mine and it saved me a probable concussion on one nasty hit-by-pitch to the head.

Their absolute stupidest rule which, when you think about it would be impossible for an umpire to enforce, involves courtesy runners. With a continuous batting order, the standard ASA courtesy runner rule (a player not in the game- everybody is in the game) can't be followed.

So what they came up with is a courtesy runner can be used for any player at any time, and the courtesy runner can be any player- SO LONG AS THE COURTESY RUNNER COMING IN IS NO FASTER THAN THE PLAYER BEING REPLACED.

How in the world would an umpire know which player is faster than the other? What is he going to do- stop the game and have the two guys run a couple of timed forty yards to see who is the fastest?

A stupid and virtually unenforcable rule, somehow pushed through by a couple of crybaby coaches that felt violated because teams were legally using the previous C.R. rule (anybody at any time) to put good runners in for older or injured players.

Our coach, who is 65 and still plays a few innings here and there- and is exactly the kind of player the old C.R. rule was supposed to address- pointed out that at one recent game, the only player slower than him was me- I had a severly sprained ankle at the time and had to ride the bench for a couple of weeks. (I still think I could have out-limped him in a footrace!)

[NCASAUmp]

BretMan - Maybe they should look at the courtesy runner rules in ASA senior play. The gist of it is thus...

1 - Any player on the bench can be a courtesy runner.
2 - If player A goes in as a courtesy runner for player B, player A can't be a courtesy runner a second time in the same inning, and player B can't be a courtesy runner for anyone else in the same inning.
3 - If player A goes in as a courtesy runner, s/he can't be replaced by another courtesy runner, except in case of an injury.
4 - If a player's spot in the line-up comes up to bat while they're a courtesy runner, just pull them off the base, call an out and let them bat.

But I agree, stupid rule.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

We play by ASA rules- with modifications...lots of modifications. These modifications are proposed and voted on by league coaches during the off-season, each with their own agenda

The NCAA has a men's FP program?

Our coach, who is 65 and still plays a few innings here and there- and is exactly the kind of player the old C.R. rule was supposed to address- pointed out that at one recent game, the only player slower than him was me- I had a severly sprained ankle at the time and had to ride the bench for a couple of weeks.

weeks? From what I've heard, it has been more like "years".

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

weeks? From what I've heard, it has been more like "years".

Sounds like more than just the bench is getting ridden...

[Tru_in_Blu]

I've played in and have now umpired in several different leagues. When umpiring, I always have to remind myself which league I'm working that night because of the many different modifications to ASA.

Some rules I've pushed for in my playing days:

In a modified-fast pitch league we allowed bunting but no stealing. HBP was in effect. Since I was a pitcher with reasonable control my complaint was that when other pitchers had a batter with 2 strikes they'd try to really zip one in. Unfortunately, without control, the pitch often times ended up hitting the backstop on the fly, and with no penalty, i.e. baserunners advancing, didn't develop the required discipline on developing pitchers. So we put in a rule that stated if the catcher caught the ball on the first attempt, including a clean trap, runners could not advance. But if the catcher bobbled the pitch or it did in fact hit the backstop on the fly, runners could advance at their own risk. This calmed down the wanton recklessness of pitchers, especially with a runner on third base.

Regarding courtesy runners, we had a rule where a CR could be requested by the offense, and if allowed by the defense, the defense could pick who the CR would be. Often-times if I was requested to allow a CR, I'd pick the opposing pitcher. Sometimes the CR chosen was due to bat within "x" batters. In one game where I was pitching a shutout at the time, the batter dropped down a bunt w/ two outs in the 5th or 6th inning and beat it out for a base hit. Then he had the softballs to ask for a CR. DENIED! We ended up passing a rule modification that allowed for 1 CR each half-inning to be used at the discretion of the offensive coach. The runner would be that person in the lineup preceeding the leadoff batter for the inning [first inning would be last batter in the lineup]. Now sometimes the CR would be a rabbit and sometimes the CR would be a turtle. But it took out the emotion of having to do the "requesting thing". It was fortuitous in some cases if you could replace a slower baserunner with a faster one, but it didn't always work out that way.

Some other "modifications":
1. Over-30 womens slo-pitch playing on a girl's FP field and pitching from 39 feet; allowing bunting; no infield fly rule; stealing on ANY pitch unless umpire called it illegal; unlimited foul balls.
2. Modified leagues none of which wear helmets; one league allows tag ups from 3B only; no bunting; no stealing; one league makes HBP the batter's choice, another ignores HBP [it's just a called ball]; one league had no penalty for illegal pitches, i.e. no baserunner advances. Good thing, because there's not a legal pitcher in the league. One league does use 10 on defense. One league claims they use a "DH", such that if that player goes in to play defense, the DH is lost for the game. We've had some pretty wild arguments between the teams on that rule! Course there is no "DH" in ASA.
3. Men's slo-pitch starts w/ a count of 1-1, and they allow for 1 "extra" foul ball. So a count of 1-2 is 1-2 with one to spare. If a foul ball is hit, it is now 1-2 w/ none to spare. Another foul ball and the batter is out.
4. Church League w/ no run rule [last year]. So we had games that were literally 47-3. So they put in an amendment which allowed for the losing team to decid if they wanted to continue playing if run rule limits had be reached. So we had games that were literally 47-3 because the losing team wasn't about to give up. How that's fun for either the team winning or the team losing is beyond. It's certainly not fun for me.

Ted

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The NCAA has a men's FP program?

I see what you did there...

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The NCAA has a men's FP program?

Keep jabbing, Irish. The NCAA at least makes an attempt to give those involved in the game a say in the rules by which they play. It seems to me that many of those in ASA with the ability to affect rules changes spend most of their time at tournaments pontificating from the comfort of the sign-in tent. They haven't spent enough time watching the game to realize it has past them by. Or maybe they feel there is no need for the rule book to evolve since they got it right the first time.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by topper

Keep jabbing, Irish. The NCAA at least makes an attempt to give those involved in the game a say in the rules by which they play. It seems to me that many of those in ASA with the ability to affect rules changes spend most of their time at tournaments pontificating from the comfort of the sign-in tent. They haven't spent enough time watching the game to realize it has past them by. Or maybe they feel there is no need for the rule book to evolve since they got it right the first time.

Yes.they TRY..but they go too far......

(Did I just feed a troll?)

[topper]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Yes.they TRY..but they go too far......

(Did I just feed a troll?)

I don't think I'm a troll.

I will agree that often the way rules changes are brought about in the NCAA can lead to some knee-jerk reactions to isolated, higher profile situations. Many of these don't last very long and, for the most part, don't affect the game that much.

The good news is the coaches are deciding how their game is being played.
The bad news is the coaches are deciding how their game is being played.

I still prefer it over the alternative.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by topper

...It seems to me that many of those in ASA with the ability to affect rules changes spend most of their time at tournaments pontificating from the comfort of the sign-in tent. They haven't spent enough time watching the game to realize it has past them by. Or maybe they feel there is no need for the rule book to evolve since they got it right the first time.

Originally Posted by topper

...
I still prefer it over the alternative.

Who, exactly, do you think has "the ability to affect rules changes" in ASA ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

Keep jabbing, Irish.

J.H.C. It was a joke. You do know what a joke is, don't you?

The NCAA at least makes an attempt to give those involved in the game a say in the rules by which they play. It seems to me that many of those in ASA with the ability to affect rules changes spend most of their time at tournaments pontificating from the comfort of the sign-in tent. They haven't spent enough time watching the game to realize it has past them by. Or maybe they feel there is no need for the rule book to evolve since they got it right the first time.

Then maybe you better get up from that table and walk around. You must be talking about yourself since ANYONE can submit rule changes in ASA's world.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you realize there have been rule changes proposed and some adopted based on discussions in this forum?

Actually, the NCAA's softball rule change process is much more restrictive than ASA's or any other of which I am aware.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=534

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

J.H.C. It was a joke. You do know what a joke is, don't you?

I'm not sure what J.H.C. means, but I certainly know what a joke is and actually thought your comment was funny. It was a jab none the less.

I don't doubt that many on this board could submit some great changes to the code and that some may even be in a position of influence that may get the changes adopted.

How restrictive the process is is not relative to my point that the NCAA rules committee is made up of those who make this sport their livelyhood and therfore have more of a vested interest in how it is played. Like I said, I believe it makes for a more fluid rule book from year to year which has both good and bad aspects.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

I don't doubt that many on this board could submit some great changes to the code and that some may even be in a position of influence that may get the changes adopted.

Not from someone on this board (well, yes, someone from the board submitted it), but from discussions on the board which would have included you if involved.

How restrictive the process is is not relative to my point that the NCAA rules committee is made up of those who make this sport their livelyhood and therfore have more of a vested interest in how it is played. Like I said, I believe it makes for a more fluid rule book from year to year which has both good and bad aspects.

Let me see, people who get paid to advance their agenda versus people who are spending their time as volunteers (and before someone starts, yes I am aware of some of the BS & politics, sometimes too aware). But the majority are here for the games, so I don't see that much of a difference. Also, the players have a word in the rules, something NCAA does not really offer. Then again, unlike ASA, the player's ability to participate is limited to their time at the school.

The NCAA has one game for a specific gender and age group which makes their life a bit easier and is probably the single most reason why they should have a fluid rule book. What I would give for ASA to have just one set of rules, but that is not possible.

It is routinely mentioned by some, including you, how the game has passed by the ASA powers that be and they haven't allowed the rules to keep up with the game. Yet, ASA has a much wider range of input from many more sources than the NCAA permits. Seems to me the ASA rules evolve at a pretty decent pace.

I understand what and why the NCAA does for it's game. Do I agree with everything the NCAA does? Hell, no. I also understand what and why the ASA does what it does for it's game. Do I agree with everything the ASA does? Hell, no! What I don't understand is how anyone can insist one is superior to the other since they are not in the same business.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Let me see, people who get paid to advance their agenda...

If having a successful softball program for their institution and student athletes qualifies as an agenda, then they get paid to advance their agenda.

I agree with the rest of your points.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by topper

I'm not sure what J.H.C. means.

You probably don't want to know either. It violates a much older code than that of the ASA or the NCAA. Rule # 3 I believe.