Stupid rule...

[Dakota]

Fair warning - LL baseball...

In the consolation game in the LL world series, the Texas pitcher was within one out of pitching a no-hitter against the Caribbean team when he was removed by LL rule because he reached the 85 pitch count limit. The relief pitcher struck out the last batter to preserve a "team" no hitter.

Stupid to have such a rule without any room for exceptions to be made.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Fair warning - LL baseball...

In the consolation game in the LL world series, the Texas pitcher was within one out of pitching a no-hitter against the Caribbean team when he was removed by LL rule because he reached the 85 pitch count limit. The relief pitcher struck out the last batter to preserve a "team" no hitter.

Stupid to have such a rule without any room for exceptions to be made.

Though their heart is in the right place, I don't believe this is that great a rule. Like many other physical attributes of a player, there is no standard number you can place as a baseline. A player should at least be allowed to finish the inning. If they put as much emphasis on types of pitches thrown (yeah, I know it isn't possible) as they do on the count, it would be a higher level of protection for the player.

[Mountaineer]

Unfortunately, I believe that rule is a coming attraction for softball. Rumor has it that it's only a year or two away.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Unfortunately, I believe that rule is a coming attraction for softball. Rumor has it that it's only a year or two away.

It would make absolutely no sense to have this type of rule for softball. The mechanics of pitching are totally different in this sport than in the little ball sport. There is no real stress put on any part of the arm, if the player has been coached correctly, in softball. What would be the benefit, then, of such a rule?

Also...where are you hearing your "rumors" from?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

It would make absolutely no sense to have this type of rule for softball. The mechanics of pitching are totally different in this sport than in the little ball sport. There is no real stress put on any part of the arm, if the player has been coached correctly, in softball. What would be the benefit, then, of such a rule?

Also...where are you hearing your "rumors" from?

I was looking on here to find the thread I read something about it - there was in interesting article posted about the stress that is actually put on a female's arm when she throws and that they are now thinking it's more stress than we used to believe. I have also spoken with a couple of DA's that just returned from Williamsport and they told me that they look for it to happen in softball. I don't like it either but there are other rules I don't like and have to live with them. I guess this is one more . . .

[NCASAUmp]

Well, considering it's roughly the reverse motion of a volleyball swing, it doesn't surprise me that this could become an issue. My right rotator cuff tendon is 50% severed from all the hitting I've done.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

It would make absolutely no sense to have this type of rule for softball. The mechanics of pitching are totally different in this sport than in the little ball sport. There is no real stress put on any part of the arm, if the player has been coached correctly, in softball. What would be the benefit, then, of such a rule?

I believed this for years. Certainly there is less stress on the shoulder than in baseball pitching, but softball overuse injuries are still posible. My DD was an above-average HS and JO pitcher. Her mechanics were sound, and every pitching coach who saw her loved her wrist snap. At age 17 she was diagnosed with a stress fracture to the tip of her radius. She never pitched another inning. (Fortunately, she hit well enough to put herself through college by swinging a bat.) I really think that if I had restricted her pitching "just a bit" the results would have been different.

[Dakota]

I don't object to the idea of the rule itself in 12U baseball. What I find stupid is a rule so rigid it does not allow a kid to pitch to one more batter when he has a no-hitter going in the LL world series! The rigidity is stupid. There should be a possiblity of exception in certain exceptional circumstances.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I don't object to the idea of the rule itself in 12U baseball. What I find stupid is a rule so rigid it does not allow a kid to pitch to one more batter when he has a no-hitter going in the LL world series! The rigidity is stupid. There should be a possiblity of exception in certain exceptional circumstances.

Yes, but you know how coaches can be - and they would certainly try to come up with different ways to bend the rule. You know the whole inch into a mile thing . . .

[Steve M]

Sure it's a stupid rule - but look at the organization.
Supposedly, the organization is not about winning/losing/individual or team stats - it's about participation and learning the game. Looking at it from this standpoint, it's not that stupid a rule. If we want competition or something closer to real ball, there are far better organizations. If, however, you want participation as the driving force, LL is probably not a bad organization.

[Mountaineer]

I can't find the thread that discussed the problems that have recently been discovered - or contrived or whatever you want to call it, but a simple google search for "softball pitching injuries" came up with these articles and others.

www.momentummedia.com/articles/cm/cm0907/pitch.htm

http://www.momentummedia.com/article...9/bbtulane.htm

http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/15/26/21.html

[IRISHMAFIA]

Look at anything long enough and eventually you will find something wrong or "dangerous" about it.

I don't think the issue with softball is the same as baseball.

In baseball, the issue is more about the motion used which is no where near as "natural" as an underhanded pitch. In softball, it is more of an issue of overuse.

Even the best made products suffer from wear and tear. Running and jogging is supposed to be healthy events, yet continue to run/jog without proper rest/recovery time and the ankles, knees and hips will eventually begin to deteriorate.

And I think that may be softball's sin. A coach gets a good pitcher and hangs not only his hat on her, but damn near an entire season. And that cannot be good for the pitcher's arm as often as these girls play and practice.

[Skahtboi]

The article seems to support my original statement:

Why can some pitchers handle lots of innings and others can't? Much of it has to do with their preparation: their preseason training, their mechanics.

And:

The conventional wisdom appears to be true: The underhand pitching motion of fast-pitch softball, though whip-like and vigorous, is far more natural than the overhand baseball pitch and puts less strain on the elbow and shoulder.

Please note that I didn't say injuries to the arm were impossible, that would be absurd. What I was discussing was the lack of necessity for a pitch count rule to be put into softball based on the fact that injuries of the type which they are made to prevent are less likely in softball, with proper coaching and proper mechanics.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...In softball, it is more of an issue of overuse...

In May, one of the best young pitchers here in AZ and probably the country was hospitalized with what was diagnosed as Thoracic Outlet Syndrome.

From what I understand, the muscles in her upper arm had developed so much from all of her pitching, that blood flow to her arm was restricted. She ended up in the hospital for 12 days and at least one major surgery.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

It would make absolutely no sense to have this type of rule for softball. The mechanics of pitching are totally different in this sport than in the little ball sport. There is no real stress put on any part of the arm, if the player has been coached correctly, in softball. What would be the benefit, then, of such a rule?

Also...where are you hearing your "rumors" from?

I agree - it makes little sense in softball for exactly the reason you mention.

I'll tell you what I'd like to see in the NCAA Softball College World Series, however: Something that forces a team to bring in a 2nd pitcher at some point in the tournament.

This would prevent a team from riding the coattails of a dominating pitcher when their team, as a whole, may not be as good as another. I think a 2nd pitcher should be tasked with "holding down the fort", to some extent, at some point in the tournament, even if only a brief appearance.

Pitching is disproportionately a critical element of the game in fastpitch softball. When balancing the importance of good hitting and good defense, pitching tips the scales to a huge degree. A dominating pitcher can make even an average team look great. And she can do it for every pitch, of every game, for the duration of the tournament.

Generally speaking, in fastpitch softball, if you don't have a pitcher - you don't have a chance. On the other hand, if a team is weak in several categories; as long as they have a dominating pitcher - they always have a chance. How good does your defense have to be if your pitcher is striking out 12-15 batters a game? How good does you offense have to be when your pitcher has an ERA of 0.73?

In short, I'd like to see some more pitching depth in the College World Series. I'm not sure how that can be done, however.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN