First college level game...

CajunNewBlue · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 25, 2008, 09:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

It's fall ball. Relax, and enjoy. Are you working a three man crew? If so, there are some practices allowed in NCAA (such as rimming), that aren't traditionally accepted mechanics in ASA.

yep, three man... and "rimming" is that a after game locker room thing?

NCASAUmp · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 25, 2008, 09:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

yep, three man... and "rimming" is that a after game locker room thing?

I think I threw up a little in my mouth.

Skahtboi · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 25, 2008, 10:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I think I threw up a little in my mouth.

I know I did.

To rim, (rimming) is where the umpire stays outside the diamond even though the ball is hit to the outfield. For example, with no runners on, a ball is hit to left field. U3 chases. Rather than come inside the diamond, U1 stays outside, watches as the runner touches first and then, while still outside the diamond, takes the runner to second. This keeps all the elements of a possible play at second in front of him; the ball, the runner, the base to which a pending play may be developing, and the fielder who possibly will be making the play.

CajunNewBlue · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 25, 2008, 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I know I did.

To rim, (rimming) is where the umpire stays outside the diamond even though the ball is hit to the outfield. For example, with no runners on, a ball is hit to left field. U3 chases. Rather than come inside the diamond, U1 stays outside, watches as the runner touches first and then, while still outside the diamond, takes the runner to second. This keeps all the elements of a possible play at second in front of him; the ball, the runner, the base to which a pending play may be developing, and the fielder who possibly will be making the play.

yes, sir. Been working on my rimming (lol... I hate that term) mechanics all this summer... even do it while in 2-man mechanic mode (on a clean shot to the out field) as I have been told to by other umpires like whiskers and a few others... wish FED and ASA would make this their standard.

IRISHMAFIA · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 25, 2008, 01:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I know I did.

To rim, (rimming) is where the umpire stays outside the diamond even though the ball is hit to the outfield. For example, with no runners on, a ball is hit to left field. U3 chases. Rather than come inside the diamond, U1 stays outside, watches as the runner touches first and then, while still outside the diamond, takes the runner to second. This keeps all the elements of a possible play at second in front of him; the ball, the runner, the base to which a pending play may be developing, and the fielder who possibly will be making the play.

Okay, now you started it.

This mechanic provides no more advantage in this situation than a button-hook does. That is, unless you cheat on your button-hook.

AtlUmpSteve · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 25, 2008, 01:48pm

My opinion is that NCAA rimming has one advantage, always; it is easier physically than pushing the buttonhook. It also has one advantage, sometimes; if U3 doesn't chase and covers 2nd, any possible play between 1st and 2nd is automatically bracketed.

Rimming has one potential weakness; when U3 chases, if there is an overthrow at 2nd, U1 is behind a possible play at 3rd, and this results in either 1) a call from behind at 3rd, or 2) PU to take a potential play at 3rd that should routinely belong to U1. Sure, that can be overcome, but it requires an adjustment to standards by the umpires.

We could argue forever which is a better mechanic; bottom line is simply that ASA and NCAA have differing philosophies on mechanics for very good reasons. The ASA philosophy is to create basic rules that apply to the vast majority of situations, to minimize conditional exceptions, because the vast and overwhelming numbers of umpires calling that program need the absolutes of KISS, "KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID". The inside-outside theory without exceptions covers that situation.

The NCAA philosophy is to create or enable a much smaller and greatly more experienced group of higher level umpires to utilize a flexible set of mechanics that allow and even mandate exceptions to almost every general rule, to create specific mechanics that are "best" for each and every situation, and presume that each and every umpire in the program is fully capable (and will, in every case) to adapt and adjust to any variation.

Again, each progam has good and valid reasons for their approach. I, for one, simply refuse to say that either is better for all. Each is better suited to their own program, IMO.

And, this argument is no better than sniping about a philosophical difference to publicly publish on the internet a (NCAA) rulebook that no one would plagiarize (there is no one out there that I have ever met or heard of that wants to use college specific rules that isn't an affiliated member of NCAA already) versus not making internet available another (ASA) rulebook that would be (and is) regularly plagiarized or otherwise stolen without permission by literally thousands of teams, leagues, and tournaments, that simply play "ASA Rules", yet choose to not register their team, league, or tournament, unless forced to do so. Clearly different business models, clearly each has good reasons for doing it how they do it. Both are right, IMO, for doing it their way.

IRISHMAFIA · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 25, 2008, 04:00pm

I agree with Steve's assessment of the mechanic. However, I do not agree with this comment:

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more experienced group of higher level umpires

I've seen some "college" umpires that aren't worth a $hit, period. I've seen HS umpires that are even worse. I've also seen HS umpires that could do great at the collegiate level. I've seen ASA umpires that could do great at both the HS & NCAA level.

Like in baseball, the fact that someone has attained a certain level does not make them the best/more experience or higher than the next guy/gal. It simply means they are the best/more experienced available.

Quote:

And, this argument is no better than sniping about a philosophical difference to publicly publish on the internet a (NCAA) rulebook that no one would plagiarize (there is no one out there that I have ever met or heard of that wants to use college specific rules that isn't an affiliated member of NCAA already) versus not making internet available another (ASA) rulebook that would be (and is) regularly plagiarized or otherwise stolen without permission by literally thousands of teams, leagues, and tournaments, that simply play "ASA Rules", yet choose to not register their team, league, or tournament, unless forced to do so. Clearly different business models, clearly each has good reasons for doing it how they do it. Both are right, IMO, for doing it their way.

And there is one thing that some do not realize. ASA considers the rule book part of the package teams and umpires get for their registration.

The NCAA does not have an umpire's association and I doubt they register the coach/team as an independent entity. They are a conglomerate of educational institutions banded together for the benefit and coordination of athletic programs.

Yes, other organizations offer their rules on line and they have every right to do so. I would think it all depends on each organization's philosophy and priority. And that is each organization's right and privilege.

topper · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 25, 2008, 10:06pm

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