How Much Is Too Much

Just Curious · #1 (**permalink**) Tue May 07, 2002, 08:18pm

Fed Ball.... Pitching questions...
F1 start her pitch with the ball of her pivot foot at the back of the pitcher's plate... In the course of her wind-up, she picks up her pivot foot and will re-plant it with her heel at the front edge of the pitcher's plate... Yes, you can see daylight when it breaks contact, but we're talking maybe an 1" at most.
My partner called her for 3 illegal pitches...
Q1. What do you guys/gals think?

Starting pitcher (home team) bends over and grinds the new ball into the dirt......
Q2. How would you handle this one? Call an illegal pitch???... Ask for a new ball???? What would you do?

bluezebra · #2 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 02:17am

1..Illegal pitch.

2..Emphatic warning. Then ejection. It's illegal. In fact, if she defaced the ball, I might eject her w/o a warning. "Excuse me coach. Did you read the rule book"?

Bob

Del-Blue · #3 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 05:55am

Be careful on this one, remember you can "slide" your pivot foot. I have had pitchers do the same thing, some illegal, some ok. I guess it depends on how high she raises her foot. I know, I know,If she breaks contact with the pitchers plate it is an illegal pitch. I Will tell her about it between innings as I brush off the pitchers plate, If I decide I need to call it, I first try to call an illegal pitch when it really doesn't hurt the team ,like when no one is on base as opposed to when a runner is on third.
""""" Flame away""""" . Now if she places her foot in front of the pitchers plate, I will call that anytime. I have a hard time calling illegal pitches that don't cause the pitcher to get an advantage.

I am a pitchers umpire

Del-Blue · #4 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 06:01am

I forgot to respond to the other question about the ball.

Was it a brand new ball?????? If so, I would do nothing...... If it wasn't a new ball, I would warn her, look at the ball, and if I found it to be scuffed, I would take it out of play, if not I would give it back to her. How many pitchers do you see that like to pitch with a new ball???

ntxblue · #5 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 07:45am

I agree with Bob, mostly.

True it is an illegal pitch. HTBT situation to see what she is doing. Would probably call it.

Grinding the ball in the dirt - It must have been a new ball. I agree with the emphatic warning but would only consider ejection if my instructions were ignored.

Elaine "Lady Blue" · #6 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 08:43am

1. I would not call an illegal pitch unless she replanted further towards the plate. You must call the intent of the rule which is the pitcher cannot gain an advantage on the batter. If advantage is gained-bam! I've got an illegal pitch.
2. STRONG warning--the pitcher cannot put any foreign matter/object on the ball. She can use a resin bag under the supervision of the umpires. I've never understood why we blues can't 'rub up' the balls like Major League. Probably cause the organizations are too cheap to import Delaware mud!

Steve M · #7 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 10:33am

Elaine,
I dunno 'bout other areas, but here, most of the games I see have 2 new balls to start with - 1 for each starting pitcher. The pitchers warm up with these new balls, so they really don't look all that new come game time. That's why we don't use the mud to rub up balls. Should there be a game when I do get another new ball, I rub it up with some infield dirt.

Steve M

Dakota · #8 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 11:43am

Pitchers are not allowed to rub the ball in the dirt. However, the penalty (FED) is not warning/ejection, it is illegal pitch, ball on the batter. If done during warmups, (the rule says The pitcher shall not at any time...) I guess the first batter up starts with a 1-0 count.

Umpires, however, may rub up the ball, and I always do that with new game balls.

As to the "no adgantage" stuff, no offense, but - THAT DRIVES ME CRAZY.

If it offers no advantage, then there is no disadvantage to the pitcher to pitch with a legal motion. A leap is a leap.
Call it, unless it is a "developmental" league. Then instruct and help the pitcher understand what she is doing wrong.

If she is doing this on every pitch, then by all means call it as soon as you confirm what you think you saw. You're really not doing her any favors by allowing the illegal motion to continue.

If she is saving this for a little extra ummph in difficult situations, then by all means do not give her a break by waiting until there is no harm to her team in calling the illegal pitch. After all, the mere fact that she is only occasionally illegal when she needs it is evidence enough that she is gaining an advantage by using the little extra leap.

Just Curious · #9 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 11:48am

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve M
Elaine,
I dunno 'bout other areas, but here, most of the games I see have 2 new balls to start with - Should there be a game when I do get another new ball, I rub it up with some infield dirt.

Steve M

Steve...
Most of the time, I have been starting with 2 new balls... The home coach will hand them to me just before the game.. So from what you stated above, I should get the balls as soon as I can and get them into the warm-up as soon as I can?

IRISHMAFIA · #10 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 12:00pm

I will rub down all balls into the game. If the player is still not happy with that, I will let them apply some dirt/sand/whatever the playing surface is to rub it down more.

However, I will not allow them to bend over and scuff the ball on the ground. Grinding a ball into the ground does more than just remove the finish.

Elaine "Lady Blue" · #11 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 12:53pm

Sorry, Steve, but I was trained by 2 ISF umpires and attended several schools taught by the ASA National Staff.
Gaining an advantage was repeated over and over. If I see that a pitcher is performing any illegal motion with any part of her body during warm up, then I pay REAL close attention to the first couple of batters. If she does it then, (unless this is a qualifier) I will call time from my BU position and ask the coach to come out to the rubber with me. I then either talk and/or demonstrate the proper pitching regulations. If it's a qualifier, regional, national, etc., then I reley on my training to support me, and I call it if it is illegal. Some umpires will never call an illegal pitch, some call it too quickly, there is where 'advantage' comes into play. However, if she leaps (both feet in air)--illegal pitch, crow hop and land more than a couple of inches in front of the rubber--illegal pitch, etc.
Personally, I think it takes training by the best for one to be able to understand what's illegal and should be called, and what is not.
My pet peeve is the umpire that will NEVER call an illegal
pitch. Because he's afraid, doesn't have a clue or doesn't
care? No, I think because he didn't have proper training for most blues. But, for those of us that have had proper
training, call the dam thing!!!

[Edited by Elaine "Lady Blue" on May 8th, 2002 at 12:57 PM]

whiskers_ump · #12 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 09:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve M
Elaine,
I dunno 'bout other areas, but here, most of the games I see have 2 new balls to start with - 1 for each starting pitcher. The pitchers warm up with these new balls, so they really don't look all that new come game time. That's why we don't use the mud to rub up balls. Should there be a game when I do get another new ball, I rub it up with some infield dirt.

Steve M

I agree with Steve M. on this. When I arrive at the complex
I arrange for both pitchers to use the two balls that will be
placed into service at the start of the game. I like a 3rd,
but I rub it up myself...If a ball goes out of play, I try
very hard to see that I have first possession of it to check
it. If new, I rub it upon inspection.

Regards to illegal pitch, see an illegal pitch, call an
illegal pitch....

glen

Steve M · #13 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 09:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Just Curious

Steve...
Most of the time, I have been starting with 2 new balls... The home coach will hand them to me just before the game.. So from what you stated above, I should get the balls as soon as I can and get them into the warm-up as soon as I can?

Chuck,
I'd rather not have the coach hand me brand new balls just before the first pitch. Let the pitchers warmup with them and then you take the balls from the pitchers at the pregame plate meeting. We do this for high school, college, and ASA games. Each pitcher will be given a game ball to warm up with. I pitched a little baseball many years ago but was never good enough as a pitcher to get finicky about what ball was what - I threw the ball I was given. Softball pitchers - men, women, and girls - at all levels have got to be the most finicky folks I've ever seen. Either that or their sense of touch is incredibly sensitive. And either way, since they've warmed up with it (maybe), they think they're comfortable with this particular ball.

Steve M

IRISHMAFIA · #14 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 09:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
Sorry, Steve, but I was trained by 2 ISF umpires and attended several schools taught by the ASA National Staff.
.....I will call time from my BU position and ask the coach to come out to the rubber with me............

[Edited by Elaine "Lady Blue" on May 8th, 2002 at 12:57 PM]

If this were so, you should know that it is a "pitcher's plate", not a rubber