Bad weather/Game time

[canump]

Just trying to get a general feel here as to when an ump takes control of a game.
Sit: Last night I was BU, partner and I car pooled to game, got to diamond about 25 minutes before scheduled start. Both teams going thru there warm up routines. As PU is getting his gear on we are watching the sky as dark clouds are a coming in, and we are guessing how many innings we thought we'd get in before the sky opens up on us.
About 10 minutes before game time we are strolling towards the diamond when the home team rep comes over to ask us what we thought of the weather, and who's decision it is if we should start. During this conversation I had to make a mother nature call so I didn't hear any response. At my age when you gotta go, you gotta go.
I come back and see my partner sitting in the bleachers, I thought he was waiting for me so I walk over and stand at the gate to go on the diamond, I hesitate glance at my partner and he waves me over to sit down. To me it's time to get going with ground rules and such but I stroll over and he said "they haven't decided as to if they want to start. I said " It's game time" he says " It's their decission right now due to weather"
I wasn't about to sit there and banter back and forth on this issue so I sat down. About 5 min after game time as we are waiting it starts lightning then the sky opens up. After 15 min the home team comes over and says thats it "we're calling it" We get our fee and run to the car.
To me we should have and could have started on time. It wasn't rainning or lightning at game time.
Is there a general ruleof thumb covering this sit or are different areas doing things differently?

[NCASAUmp]

In ASA, making this call isn't up to the umpires until after the first pitch. If the rules north of the border say it's the home team's call whether to start, delay or cancel a game, then there you go.

You were probably better off either way. You got your game fee, and no worries about resuming a game that was already in progress.

[Dholloway1962]

You got paid your entire game fee and didn't see a pitch? And you are complaining? Do you see the flawed logic?

Once game starts it is umpire discretion. Before that it is up to the home team or tournament director.

I'm off to a HS tournament now...I only hope I have as good of luck as you did!

[bluezebra]

When I was umping all levels of softball and baseball, it was the home team's decision until the PU received the lineup cards. In tournaments, it was the TD in place of the home team.

Bob

[wadeintothem]

Stop bragging... jeez.

[canump]

Trust me guys, I'm not complaining that I got paid for just sitting even thou just half game fee. In our area if you show up at the diamond and the game is called due to the weather with out a pitch being thrown, the fee is half.
I just figure that if at game time the conditions allow you to start, then you start. On this situation there was no rain or lightning, both teams were ready so to me lets go. We've all seen conditions where you think it's going to rain cats & dogs but then the clouds clear up and you have a wonderful night of ball.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by canump

Trust me guys, I'm not complaining that I got paid for just sitting even thou just half game fee. In our area if you show up at the diamond and the game is called due to the weather with out a pitch being thrown, the fee is half.
I just figure that if at game time the conditions allow you to start, then you start. On this situation there was no rain or lightning, both teams were ready so to me lets go. We've all seen conditions where you think it's going to rain cats & dogs but then the clouds clear up and you have a wonderful night of ball.

The local leagues around here give us a full game fee if they don't cancel before we show. That's why I like to get there as early as possible.

You're right, you can't count on the weather. I had one game where the clouds were rolling in STRAIGHT at us, then did a 90 degree turn when the edge of the clouds were at about... hmmm... an 80 degree angle from the ground looking up. Never got a drop. Just how it goes.

What irritates me is when you have some umpires who clearly don't give a damn about safety and continue to play with lightning in the area. That's just pure insanity. I've never seen anyone get struck by lightning. I don't know of anyone who has ever umpired a game where someone got struck.

Doesn't mean I will tempt fate.

However, if gametime is approaching, it's still up to the local crew to decide if the field's fit to play. Until the first pitch, the field belongs to them. Ask any pilot who the plane belongs to before they get into the cockpit.

[Dakota]

As said, it is the home team's call regarding calling the game due to weather before the game actually starts. A 5 minute delay is not objectionable, but if it had drug out to 15 min or so, and they were still dithering looking at the clouds, you might start showing a little impatience with the home coach... call the game or start the game.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

What irritates me is when you have some umpires who clearly don't give a damn about safety and continue to play with lightning in the area. That's just pure insanity.

Agree completely. Every time I hear about umpires doing this it amazes me. I'm glad NFHS makes it easy in HS games.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

What irritates me is when you have some umpires who clearly don't give a damn about safety and continue to play with lightning in the area. That's just pure insanity. .

Well, define "in the area".

[Stu Clary]

Lightning: One thing I have never had to deal with on a softball field.

[Tru_in_Blu]

From Rule 5:

Section 1. HOME TEAM.
The team designated as home team shall bat last in the inning.

Section 2. FITNESS OF THE GROUND.
The fitness of the ground for a game shall be decided solely by the plate umpire.

We do a lot of double-headers, sometimes triple-headers. So when I get to the first game, I'm counting heads to see if both teams have enough to start [either by ASA or League bylaws]. If there's enough, we'll get started, regardless if it's "about to rain".

Now if I get to a field that's had rain or it's currently raining, I'll make a call based on the current conditions. Most leagues include a bylaw that states that if the umpire calls the game because of field conditions, the game is postponed but if the umpire deems the field playable and both coaches agree otherwise, the game will also be postponed. Safety being the primary concern.

All of our leagues try to give us at least 2 to 3 hours notice for cancellations. If we show up, we are paid the game fee whether the game is started or not.

Ted

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, define "in the area".

I've seen umpires continue games with lightning less than 5 miles away. Now, most people think, "well, it's still 5 miles away."

What they fail to realize is "yeah, THAT one was 5 miles away. Next one could be over your head, or worse."

Lightning can strike miles away from a storm. Don't let the clouds be your only guide. Otherwise, the clouds aren't just in the sky, they're in your head.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, define "in the area".

Within my eyesight....If I can see it we are 90% of the way to stopping. I umpire in the northern Central valley so there are spots we one can see 50-60 miles away....But if I'm thinking about it we are done....Had it happen 2x last HS season. Home coach threw a nice little fit at one of the games. I still called it. My Association backed me on it without even batting an eye......

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I've seen umpires continue games with lightning less than 5 miles away. Now, most people think, "well, it's still 5 miles away."

What they fail to realize is "yeah, THAT one was 5 miles away. Next one could be over your head, or worse."

Lightning can strike miles away from a storm. Don't let the clouds be your only guide. Otherwise, the clouds aren't just in the sky, they're in your head.

Let's just say that it helps to have an ATC on your staff who has live access to the closest international airport's tower and weather center.