ASA Robot Umpires

[wadeintothem]

I dont think there is any doubt that NCAA has surpassed ASA in mechanics and their system.

The reason for it is simple, ASA designs their mechanic to a lower common denominator of umpire and does little to adjust/allow for adjustment as the umpire advances. They are too rigid in their expectations, to the point of not allowing growth or superior position on a case by case basis.

NCAA 3 man is superior, especially their considerations of inside/out theory vs rim.

NCAA plate positioning is superior.

NCAA focus on being smarter and reading the play is superior.

4th dimension is valid when it is given real consideration as a technique on tag plays.

Umpire-umpire communication is far superior... especially this year with ASA National Staff disallowing nonbook umpire communication.

NCAA is MUCH LESS robotic than in years past IMO. ASA allows no individuality with one single exception - called 3K..

ASA has fallen behind.. where they used to lead the way.


As to being chosen for ASA Nationals vs Fed.. obviously ASA Nationals is superior, especially since it means something towards advancing in umpiring.. whereas post season NFHS means nothing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I dont think there is any doubt that NCAA has surpassed ASA in mechanics and their system.

That depends on how you view each assn. mechanics

The reason for it is simple, ASA designs their mechanic to a lower common denominator of umpire and does little to adjust/allow for adjustment as the umpire advances. They are too rigid in their expectations, to the point of not allowing growth or superior position on a case by case basis.

I agree with the first part and it is an obvious reason. However, I disagree with the part. I have been around a while working some high-level nationals and I can tell you as a fact, the umpires who work their way up have made adjustments and are anything, but robotic. Each have an on-field character of their own and they all still learn.

NCAA 3 man is superior, especially their considerations of inside/out theory vs rim.

I've worked both and I'll take the I/O though there are limited instances (in the 3+ umpire systems only) where an umpire on the corner stays outside. I had quite a long discussion with HP in Plant City concerning such situations.

NCAA plate positioning is superior.

IMO, that's laughable as there are obvious drawbacks that you just refuse to see.

NCAA focus on being smarter and reading the play is superior.

ASA doesn't focus on an umpire using their brain and read a play? I feel sorry for those who go through your training as it sounds you are definitely receiving inferior training compared to what we stress.

4th dimension is valid when it is given real consideration as a technique on tag plays.

Yeah, another catch phrase that has no meaning. No matter what an umpire does, he is still only going to get a 3-D look at best. And getting such an angle is nothing more than an umpire moving into what s/he believes is the most advantageous look available. Something that all umpiring bodies have been preaching for years.

Umpire-umpire communication is far superior... especially this year with ASA National Staff disallowing nonbook umpire communication.

If you say so. Other than the IFF, I don't believe there is that much need for special "signals".

NCAA is MUCH LESS robotic than in years past IMO. ASA allows no individuality with one single exception - called 3K.

Again, I disagree with your view of ASA. Then again, how many different ways can you execute the signal for a routine out or safe call? And what is wrong with having a uniform method of providing signals to communicate the results of an event for those not within earshot?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

ASA doesn't focus on an umpire using their brain and read a play? I feel sorry for those who go through your training as it sounds you are definitely receiving inferior training compared to what we stress.

Actually, my training comes from 3 primary sources, 2 pac 10 umpires, 1 of who is elite ASA, the other is NIF.. and the 3rd is ISC (mens FP)/ASA Elite umpire and former pac 10 umpire.. all fast pitch umpires. These guys have called at the highest levels.


Now that said.. their training goes something like this:

Well in NCAA it goes like this.. in ASA, especially when being evaluated, it needs to be like this, but another way to do it is NCAA way or this way that way

It doesnt take much training from top level NCAA/ASA guys before you realize NCAA has passed up ASA. Thats simple fact IMO.

I've talked to none involved at high level of both org who deny ASA has been passed.

The only people who really deny it are die hard ASA guys who dont even actually diligently check how NCAA does it to see if maybe there is a better way.

If you stay stuck on "ASA leads the way" without even knowing how the top NCAA umpires are doing it, then that is your choice. I approach it differently. When top dogs teach, I listen.

[socalumps]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That depends on how you view each assn. mechanics



I agree with the first part and it is an obvious reason. However, I disagree with the part. I have been around a while working some high-level nationals and I can tell you as a fact, the umpires who work their way up have made adjustments and are anything, but robotic. Each have an on-field character of their own and they all still learn.



I've worked both and I'll take the I/O though there are limited instances (in the 3+ umpire systems only) where an umpire on the corner stays outside. I had quite a long discussion with HP in Plant City concerning such situations.



IMO, that's laughable as there are obvious drawbacks that you just refuse to see.



ASA doesn't focus on an umpire using their brain and read a play? I feel sorry for those who go through your training as it sounds you are definitely receiving inferior training compared to what we stress.



Yeah, another catch phrase that has no meaning. No matter what an umpire does, he is still only going to get a 3-D look at best. And getting such an angle is nothing more than an umpire moving into what s/he believes is the most advantageous look available. Something that all umpiring bodies have been preaching for years.



If you say so. Other than the IFF, I don't believe there is that much need for special "signals".



Again, I disagree with your view of ASA. Then again, how many different ways can you execute the signal for a routine out or safe call? And what is wrong with having a uniform method of providing signals to communicate the results of an event for those not within earshot?

I kinda get the feeling we are beating a dead stubborn horse with with a stick. Which resolves very little. I do have a lot of respect for those who have kept current, viewed with open eyes and relate accurate information. Evolving I guess you could say. I do appreciate the NCAA openness to exploring MLB's training of their umpires. Could there be any better source of information...realizing that some stuff applies some doesn't...but most is worthy of trial and consideration, along with the emphasis of allowing for "thinking" umpires. All the while aknowledgeing all ASA has done for umpireing (including me personally) locally, nationally and worldwide.

[DNTXUM P]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I was flipping through the channels the other day and caught a pro fast pitch game just as the batter laid down a sac bunt with a runner on first. Runner broke for 2nd, 1st base ump moved into his perfect 90 degree position to make the call on the the throw from the catcher, directly into the throwing lane from 1st to 2nd. The runner had rounded 2nd, F3 wanted to throw to 2, but the ump was directly in the way.

The correct mechanic, even if the ball were directly in front of home plate on a sac bunt would be a 90 degree angle from the throw, which would put the ump in the throwing lane to 2nd base, but in this case, the 1B ump would back off this angle a couple of steps (maybe 75 or 80 degree angle) so he/she would not be in the throwing lane. This is why the NCAA now allows their umps to make these decisions after reading what is happening, so they can get in the best possible position for that play but still not interfere with the next possible play.