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-   -   Runner assisted by coach (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/46336-runner-assisted-coach.html)

Dakota Mon Jul 21, 2008 01:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorman75
Got you beat, ran a league, the two umps got together and said in front of the captains, well we only have 3 min left in the time, so lets not start another inning, and then got in their cars and left. It was the easiest/ quickest protest I ever dealt with.
After all you said, you are on a protest committee? Wow! Isn't that kind of like being a driving instructor in India?

SRW Mon Jul 21, 2008 01:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorman75
You are telling me none of you have ever sent a message with a call? I have, and I will, part of game management in my eyes.

. . .

1. My strike zone grows, if they can hit it it is probably going to be a strike.
2. Anything close is a out, for the team up.
3. If they keep running, they miss a base or leave early, either way I call a one or two out. Normally the message is heard and they stop running.

Are you protecting the integrity of the game making the losing team stand in the field for 45 min? and get beat for 50?

Well I am sorry I feel that hurts the game and the kids much worst and I am willing to take a hit to my integrity for that. We all know we have coaches out there that will run the score up on there own mother. It has really nothing to do with time of the game or wanting to get home.
This is exactly why I hope I never have to work a game with you. You have determined that you are better than the game, and know what's better for everyone else. You are making up rules and dishonoring the sport. You're a detriment to the game.

Why do you umpire, anyway?

:mad:

snorman75 Mon Jul 21, 2008 02:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
This is exactly why I hope I never have to work a game with you. You have determined that you are better than the game, and know what's better for everyone else. You are making up rules and dishonoring the sport. You're a detriment to the game.

Why do you umpire, anyway?

:mad:
Making up rules, no. Making up calls, yes. Like I said if I feel it is out of hand, I am willing to take that hit to my integrity. I feel better me then the kids. So I guess all your points are made.


Like I asked before and getting back to original thread, anyone hear for ASA on a home run being a dead ball?

robbie Mon Jul 21, 2008 02:23pm
Dont think its ever a good idea to make a clearly "bad call" for the sake of the game.

If you adjust strikezone in a blow out, so be it. But if then a pitch is beyond that "adjusted limit"... its a ball. Even it it extends an inning, or causes anouter at bat.

Likewise, on a play where you say to your self: Hmm I THINK that runner left early. In "normal" play, I don't call an out on a THINK so, but in a blow out I may do so. But not just because it was close. I gotta really think a replay has at least 50-50 chance of proving correct.

Dakota Mon Jul 21, 2008 02:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorman75
...Like I asked before and getting back to original thread, anyone hear for ASA on a home run being a dead ball?
Why do you care? Just call it like you feel at the time.

But, to answer your question (it might matter to someone else) ASA Case Book, 2007
Quote:
PLAY 3.5-8
(FP Only) B1 hits an out of the park home run and, as B1 passes 3B, removes their helmet. The plate umpire calls B1 out.
RULING: When the ball went over the outfield fence, it is no longer a live ball; therefore B1 did not remove their helmet during a live ball and should not be penalized. (3-5E EFFECT)

CecilOne Mon Jul 21, 2008 02:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorman75
Got you beat, ran a league, the two umps got together and said in front of the captains, well we only have 3 min left in the time, so lets not start another inning, and then got in their cars and left. It was the easiest/ quickest protest I ever dealt with.
Your thinking this is relevant is another lack of judgement.:(

CecilOne Mon Jul 21, 2008 02:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorman75
Guys,

First ASA is not clear on the home run. The home run effect is the ONLY effect of a ball going out of play the does not state in the first sentence, "The ball is dead." Omission by mistake or on purpose, ??? and they have not said.

You are telling me none of you have ever sent a message with a call? I have, and I will, part of game management in my eyes.

Example:

Little league, team winning by 20+ runs, still stealing on every pass ball and taking every close pitch.

1. My strike zone grows, if they can hit it it is probably going to be a strike.
2. Anything close is a out, for the team up.
3. If they keep running, they miss a base or leave early, either way I call a one or two out. Normally the message is heard and they stop running.

Are you protecting the integrity of the game making the losing team stand in the field for 45 min? and get beat for 50?

Well I am sorry I feel that hurts the game and the kids much worst and I am willing to take a hit to my integrity for that. We all know we have coaches out there that will run the score up on there own mother. It has really nothing to do with time of the game or wanting to get home.
In this one post, you have:
- refused to accept a clearly obvious rule
- demeaned Little League and its players
- said you can judge what any batter can hit
- demeaned umpiring
- offended everyone else on this forum

SRW Mon Jul 21, 2008 02:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorman75
Making up rules, no. Making up calls, yes. Like I said if I feel it is out of hand, I am willing to take that hit to my integrity. I feel better me then the kids. So I guess all your points are made.


Like I asked before and getting back to original thread, anyone hear for ASA on a home run being a dead ball?
I'm curious what you would have done in this situation...

CecilOne Mon Jul 21, 2008 03:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
I'm curious what you would have done in this situation...
Regardless of who you asked, a comment or two.
Getting to 64 with a 10 after 5 means they got 64 in 5 innings. Found that hard to believe momentarily, but remembered a game that was 21-0 after 2.
I have some concern that someone suggested "the role umpires can take". That should be what it always is, enforce rules, judge plays and let the teams worry about the rest (short of clearly UC).
Personally, I dislike calling deliberate outs either, like the LBR violations coaches invent, supposedly to be nice to the other team.

snorman75 Mon Jul 21, 2008 03:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
I'm curious what you would have done in this situation...
I go into that game with a HUGE strike zone. Wont change it, but will start huge. To qualify that, I have always have had a tight up, down and out zone. So my huge zone is others just a little bigger then normal.

WestMichBlue Mon Jul 21, 2008 03:10pm
But, to answer your question (it might matter to someone else) ASA Case Book, 2007
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">PLAY 3.5-8
(FP Only) B1 hits an out of the park home run and, as B1 passes 3B, removes their helmet. The plate umpire calls B1 out.
RULING: When the ball went over the outfield fence, it is no longer a live ball; therefore B1 did not remove their helmet during a live ball and should not be penalized. (3-5E EFFECT)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

SO - after five pages - do we all agree that a home run is not a live ball, thus interference for runner assistance during a live ball cannot be called.

Unless appealed by the defense for missing a base, the B/R will score.

BTW - both NFHS and USSSA specifically rule that a "fair fly ball passing over a fence is a dead ball." Maybe ASA could take a hint.

WMB

Dakota Mon Jul 21, 2008 03:12pm
Unless the rules body gives the umpire some tools to use (mercy rules, for example), there is little the umpire can OR SHOULD do.

As an aside, when this game was brought up last year, I thought the coach of the winning team was basically a sleaze. Why? This comment by the reporter
Quote:
Weir said he was "shocked" by the final score after the March 21 game ended. He said he was concentrating more on making sure his players were playing the game right and had lost count of the score.
I don't believe that for a minute. He'd have to be an unbelievably zoned-in coach; and to be that focused on his players' play, if true (which, as I said, no way, Jose), means he was treating the opponent as merely a practice squad - which in a way is even worse.

snorman75 Mon Jul 21, 2008 03:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Why do you care? Just call it like you feel at the time.

But, to answer your question (it might matter to someone else) ASA Case Book, 2007

PLAY 3.5-8
(FP Only) B1 hits an out of the park home run and, as B1 passes 3B, removes their helmet. The plate umpire calls B1 out.
RULING: When the ball went over the outfield fence, it is no longer a live ball; therefore B1 did not remove their helmet during a live ball and should not be penalized. (3-5E EFFECT)
It took a week for someone to find this? It fits perfect. I will gain change my stance. She is not out. A week Dakota? you sited another one earlier?

snorman75 Mon Jul 21, 2008 03:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Weir said he was "shocked" by the final score after the March 21 game ended. He said he was concentrating more on making sure his players were playing the game right and had lost count of the score.
I would like to thank all the little people to, what a load of BS.

Dakota Mon Jul 21, 2008 03:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorman75
It took a week for someone to find this? It fits perfect. I will gain change my stance. She is not out. A week Dakota? you sited another one earlier?
It only took a week (or five+ pages, take your pick) for SOME of you. There was never any doubt in my mind the ball was dead. Apparently some people need more than a definition (ASA Definitions - DEAD BALL), so I supplied a case play, whose only relevance to the thread is to help those who apparently do not clearly understand the meaning of "not in play" or who somehow imagine that a ball sitting on the ground beyond the outfield fence is still "in play."

Maybe it is like a vampire ball - the undead ball.

BTW, the NFHS rule is identical in effect.
Quote:
SECTION 6 THE RUNNER IS OUT
A runner is out when:
ART. 5 . . . Anyone other than another runner physically assists the runner while the ball is in play.


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