Runner assisted by coach
 

Here's a situation that was discussed this past weekend during umpire down time.

Bottom of the 7th. Home down by 1 run. No outs. R1 at 3B. R2 at 2B. Batter hits an over-the-fence home run. BR jubilant, jumping, hopping, etc., toward 1B and jumps over 1B (doesn't touch) and continues toward 2B. R1 has crossed home. 1B coach grabs BR and pulls her back to touch 1B.

Call? How many runs score?

ASA Rules.

2 since the ball is still live, and only the runner assisted is out.

So I've waded in without checking the rulebook twice today and been wrong ... so let's try for the full strikeout.

BR is out for being assisted. The other two runners score and the game is over.
________
MatureLina live

Didn't I see this happen to Mark McGuire? :D

FP or SP?

The ball is dead! I have all three runs scoring and no assist. (8-7-E & 1- Dead Ball)

Ha! Maybe..

Anyway, FP, but answer for both...

Since BR never reached 1st base before being called out due to interference....I have no runs scoring.

This is the ruling I'm inclined to go with. The only hold up I'm running into is that I can't find anything that explicitly says a ball is dead on a home run. Common sense would lead me to think that since the ball is no longer in the playing field, it is a dead ball.

umpharp, that's only true if it is the third out of an inning.

I too could not find anything that states the ball is dead on a home run, other then the definition of a dead ball. On a home run over the fence, the ball is defiantly not in play.

my bad...thats what I get for skimming the question.

I would have two runs scoring and the BR out for coaches interference.

Because the ball is dead, I don't have this being a timing play.....could it be?

You have to have the out at first because the defense could appeal if the coach had not pulled the BR back...in this case, the out doesn't really matter because the winning run scored

I agree, its not in play and in rule 8-5-I, a ball bouncing over the fence is dead so I am comfortable in saying the ball is dead on a home run.

umpharp, according to 8-7-E the runner being assisted is out only if the ball is live. "The runner is out: When any offensive team member, other than another runner, physically assists a runner while the ball is live."

In SP (other than Senior's and Master's) this is all a moot point. :)

Let's also be reminded that awarded bases (and a home run also fits that category) must be touched in legal order (with the exception of home runs in certain categories of adult slowpitch). If the base must be touched, failure to touch can be appealed; if failure can be appealed, then an assist must be penalized.

To allow the assist to be unpenalized would put the awarded base to supercede the offensive transgression, and we know that offensive transgressions (like interference) always supercede defensive transgressions (like obstruction). When I used to do football, that was called the "clean hands" theory; the defense couldn't keep a turnover if it was preceded by a defensive foul.

We have two runs scoring (R1 & R2), and BR is out. The location of the violation is immaterial with no outs; with two outs, the BR (who has passed, but missed first base) is out fore the third out, but the runs still score in ASA. This is another case where the ASA ruling on fourth out appeals disadvantages the defense, as the defense cannot appeal the missed base by the BR who did not score (when called out after passing the base).

Steve-

I am very hesitant to disagree with you based upon your knowledge and experience and I think your interpretation makes the most sense on how to handle this play, but it seems to conflict with the text of 8-7-E. Is there a published ASA interpretation addressing this?

I think you are confusing an appeal for the third out with an appeal for an advantageous fourth out. The runs can be nullified in ASA with an appeal of the BR missing 1B for the 3rd out.

Does the ball touch the ground, a wall, fence, building, anything outside of playable territory? If it does, it is dead.

But, Tom, that appeal would be for the fourth out. We are required to declare the out for assistance when it occurs (that is not an appeal, it is our call to make), and that (if it is with two outs) precedes the opportunity to appeal (which could not be made until all runners had completed their running responsibilities).

Dead ball....score them all.

I'm with you on this one, except for the live ball part.

Then why isn't the HR hitter out if she intentionally removes her helmet while running the bases? Because it is a dead ball and the rule doesn't apply in a dead ball situation. Same principle applies IMO.
8-7-E. When anyone other than another runner physically assists the runner while the ball is in play.

That rule is there simply for their safety. In the case of this rule, the runners must run the bases on their own power, assisted only by each other.

Where is that written for a dead ball situation?

Huh. Apparently, it isn't. Touché.

I found a rule for a live ball saying it is an out.

I find nothing in the book that says you have an out during this dead ball situation.

I do believe that you can't have an out during a dead ball situation with some exceptions (tag up, missed base on appeal). I don't see being assisted by a non-runner in that list of exceptions or dead ball appeals. Therefore you don't have an out.

If you don't have an out you have nothing.

End of Story

Not saying that this is morally correct outcome (allowing her to score) but I believe that would have to be the ruling.

Well, there are a number of rulings with which I disagree in principal, but they're there. Let's say I eject R1 for USC as she's coming home (for example, she yells "go f*** yourselves! We win!" to the other team). I have a problem with letting her score - I feel she should be out and ejected. Unfortunately, I'd have nothing backing me up to make this call other than principles (provided they have a sub available). But hey, dem's da breaks.

OK, guys, time for some kind of resolution here.

"Common sense" says the BR is out for coach's assistance and that 2 runs score, since the BR could be appealed for the out.

But, the ASA rule on assisting a runner requires that the ball be live, so by the black-letter of the rule, there is no rule against a coach assisting a runner on an over the fence home run.

If I change the OP scenario slightly to have 2 outs before the play, then the answer matters A LOT!

So, which is it?

I'm inclined to with...
 

Dead ball no interference.

I think about the helmet rule where on an over the fence home run the batter/runner can remove the helmet with no penalty. Why would it be different in this case.

Have not read anything yet.....
 

OK, I do not have a rule book in front of me, but I will read up latter.

Of the top of my head. Using the MLB rules, the same type of thing happened in the Mets playoff run a few years back. Game winning home run, with less then 2 outs and batter's run not mattering. They mobbed the runner before he made it to second. He was giving a single and called out.

Off the top of my head I can not see allowing the batter to score, and not calling her out.

Keep rules coming things, so it saves me some time, LOL.

Dholloway1962 already gave us the answer in black and white. While I disagree with the rule, that IS the rule. Ball must be live for us to call a runner out for being physically assisted by anyone other than another offensive runner. So the second sitch brought up (going from no outs to 2 outs) has the same call because it's the same rule. We can't call the BR out for this, period.

At least, not until the rule changes.

You know we all are going to be reading our books for 2-3 hours hoping to find something allowing us to call her out.

I wish us luck, but I would not count in it.

I threw a ball back into play as soon as that one went out?:D

Remember, you are discussing FP and SP JO, Masters & Seniors only.

For those who have the ASA Casebook/disc, (2007), you may want to check play 8.8-20(b) and a comment concerning when "dead ball" assistence can occur.

Base on that information, the BR is ruled out for assistence, all other runners score.

I don't have the 2007 Casebook. Could someone perhaps clarify?

I reviewed that case play, and as I read it, the coach's assistance happened before the ball became dead. Here is the case play:

If that's the case play, then I don't see how it would apply to this situation. In case b, the ball was still live and in play, even though it was heading out of play.

Even if the ball is CLEARLY "on its way" to go out of play, it's still live. For all we know, a huge gust of wind could blow it back.

Is a home run a dead ball????
 

Guys, I think we can say a home run ball is NOT a dead ball.

Lets look at 8.5.H-M. 8.5.H is our home run, it does not say the ball is dead. 8.5-I-M cover all other balls going out of play. The #1 thing they say in the effect is the ball is dead. Side note 8.6.I does not cover a home run since it only covers balls that "bounces over, rolls under or through (anything)" it does not come into effect here.

My question is why do we assume a home run is a dead ball? Trust me I think it is a interesting paradox. Since how can it be a live ball? But I think you can read it as a home run being a live ball and call the BR out for the coach assisting her.

There is another way to call the BR out
Call her out and go about your day. The winnings team's protest is "meaningless" 9.7.B

I have a question for everyone, If you see this happen tomorrow what do you call?

Any one ask ASA for a interpretation? I think it is a good one to ask for.

Dead Ball is a ball that is not in play. After the ball passes the top of the fence and contacts ground/building/wall or other object the ball becomes dead. The area outside the fences is Dead Ball Area. Once that ball gets there you have a dead ball.

Ok Snorman, I pose this question again. If the HR is not a dead ball, why is the runner or batter-runner not called out if they remove their helmet.

It is not an out. Nothing in the Rule Book supports an out call. If it happened today I would call nothing. If there is a protest I will win because I can show why it isn't an out. No other person can show why it is an out. If they can show me where in the book it constitutes an out I will jump on board. Just isn't there.

Because the rule specifically instructs the umpire to use discretion in enforcing this rule taking into consideration it's purpose even during a live ball. If a ball is in left field and a runner removes her helmet crossing the plate, I'm not ruling the batter out as there was never any danger.

Being Devil's Advocate, if the ASA agrees with you, why did they not just make that statement instead of going through all the trouble they did below?

From ASA's web site, Rules Clarifications:

Assisting an injured runner

We have received more than several phone calls and emails about the play that has been on all the TV sports shows around the country. We have been asked two things, is this legal in ASA Softball and in ASA Softball could we have put a substitute in for this injured player that has hit a home run.


First: Our rules for assisting a runner, Rule 8 Section 7E states when any offensive team member other than another runner, physically assists a runner while the ball is live EFFECT The ball is live and the runner being assisted is out. We do not have any rule that would prohibit the defense from assisting a runner.

Simple. The play they mentioned got national attention by tugging at the heart strings. The play we're discussing has not (as of yet).

Good Point :)

I agree with you, can't figure out why they try to make such a point of it, but still they leave that "while the ball is live" in there. Take that ball is live out and replace that with "at any time" and it is pretty darn clear cut. That might need to be looked at....call it the Holloway Rule? :D

Because the issue with the play in the news was the defense assisting the runner, and no one asked about the offense doing the same since the ball was dead. It was also pointed out that the offense could have used a substitute runner. They can't do that during a live ball.

If what you are implying is true (as I understand what you are saying is the ball is indeed dead since it is in dead ball territory, but by interpretation, 8-7E applies to runners after a home run anyway), why did the case play that you cited above carefully structure the situation so the ball was still live during the assistance?

I think what you are saying is what should be the interpretation; I just can't find anything that says that.

Sounds to me like we are back to the "Steve Rule" cited back in post 12.;) :p

I know. I am just saying it is interesting that all the other sections covering out of play balls, start with "Ball is dead" and the home run rule does not.

If this exact situation happens today, I call her out. Winning team has no grounds to protest a play that wins the game for them.


I any other situation, breaks my heart to say this, but I would have to call her not out.

While it makes no difference in this sitch, there are plenty of other sitches where calling an out would get you in trouble. It's a timing play, and if the home team is down by two with two outs, I guarantee you're getting a protest.

Yep, So in ANY other situation, I do not call her out, and I am SURE we are going to have a protest.

So you're admitting that you'd make the call, simply because you'd get away with it? What happens when you call it one game, and the very next game, you don't?

Ya, but I found something else.

Figured I would look in the rule differences to see if there is anything. And there is, big time.

"Home run out of the park no
mention of offensive team
members touching the runner
before touching the plate"


"No rule"


So there is "No rule" Which I guess means you can not enforce anything. She is not out.

Where did you find this? You do realize that this is just someone's interpretation and not an actual rule citation?

But back to my original question. Why would you be willing to change your rulings simply based on game situation? You're screwing the rest of us over by essentially "making it up" as you go.

Rule differences tables are not official.

No rule for "touching" refers to the made up myth call of assistance for other team members merely touching in celebration. It does not negate "assisting".

Maybe merely congratulating a player physically assists them by giving them a morale boost? :rolleyes:

Just kidding. I've never called anyone out for getting a high five or a congratulatory slap on the behind (so long as it was clear that was ALL it was for).

So knowing what you are doing is wrong you will do it anyway. I really like that kind of integrity from a brother umpire.

And sure the winning team has no grounds for a protest, but the losing team (defense) sure does. And they should win that protest.

Well, there are a number of rulings with which I disagree in principal, but they're there. Let's say I eject R1 for USC as she's coming home (for example, she yells "go f*** yourselves! We win!" to the other team). I have a problem with letting her score - I feel she should be out and ejected. Unfortunately, I'd have nothing backing me up to make this call other than principles (provided they have a sub available). But hey, dem's da breaks.
__________________


In 2002 casebook there is a play where a batter hits a high fly thinks it is an out and angrliy throws bat against fence. Ruling is USC and no homerun but an out.

That was six years ago under a different regime, back when "Henry said" was considered valid documentation for any interpretation or ruling.

I submitted a rule change a few years back that would support the "out" for USC, but it was rejected. Presently, there is nothing to support such a ruling. I wait until the end of the play to eject a player, if necessary.

You have never called a runner out, knowing they are safe? I have, and will.

What grounds does the losing team have to protest? They going to protest they lost by 3 not 2?

But they might be able to do it. The only thing that might stop them from legally protesting is that the game can not be picked up at the point of the protest since the winning run is good. So making any protest adding runs to a won game moot.

By the way with the 8.5.H effect not having a home run as a dead ball. I feel it is not a dead ball under these ASA rules.

So I call the assisted runner on a HR out.

P.S. ASA has not answered this question. Meaning no response at all. Any one else send them a email?

Attitudes like this is where umpires get such a bad name. Screwing up a judgment call is one thing, but flat out admitting that you make calls because it "doesn't matter" is totally different.

Did you ever call baseball? If so, I think I saw you in this video.

Anyone else hear the soft melody played on a piano?

I hope you're referring to 8-5-H. 8-6-H is for an intentionally dropped ball.

No, does that not apply here? ya, my bad

No, never said make I screwed up call because it does not matter. If anything the opposite. Team up 20+ runs and still stealing, any close play is going to be a out, it might not even be that close.


You do not change your strike zone when it is a blow out. If you say you do not adjust to the game situation, well I do not think you are being truthful with yourself.

In this situation, well my heart was never behind not calling her out every time. Truthfully, I would had called her out in the first inning, and welcomed a protest to put it to bed finally.

P.S. We have put it to bed in our Board, it is a out.

P.S.S I am talking playing more to the situation in kids and lower level teen games. Adults and U16 and up there really is not much gray area.

While I agree that this is a pain in the butt to deal with, it's what we're paid to do. Why are you in such a hurry to get home?


My strike zone hasn't changed in 16 years (unless it was mat ball). Period. I have more integrity than that.

I don't know who your board is, but it does not appear to be the consensus of ASA (yet). The current mandates are "get it right" and "call it by the book." If what you call is not in the book, then you're calling it wrong.

I won't even touch this one.

Sorry Dave,
We just disagree with ASA rules with a HR. Since it is not clear, until we hear something we are going to disagree.

The other stuff, well if you do not adjust, again we agree to disagree.

No, and probably never will. My brain and integrity will not permit it.

Damn shame.

Maybe they'll protest just to get the UIC's attention.:rolleyes:

I've blown calls, but certainly never on purpose.

Youre an official OF the game. Its not your game bro.

Remember this always, first and foremost:

"The integrity of the game".

You need to fix your thought process on this, it really is bad.

It shouldn't be. It should be whatever it was, safe or out. The game score or situation makes no difference.


The game situation makes no difference to me. I had a varsity game this past season where the final was 27-3. Neither me nor my partner changed a thing about what we were doing. This is what is called professionalism.

I am embarrassed for you! Of course I, and hopefully anyone else involved with umpiring, have never knowingly made the wrong call. That is absurd. A travesty. If you really do these things, then may I implore you to give up umpiring. Go get a part time job at Wal-Mart since it seems to be about the money for you, as no self respecting umpire who works the game for the fun and enjoyment of it would ever dream of doing the things you profess.

The only adjusting that needs to be done is your approach to umpiring the game. Period. You are there to umpire, not to make the game the easier on yourself.

I think ASA is as clear as they need to be on this. The ball has already touched the ground (or some other object) in dead ball territory. The ball is dead. At this time, the runner assistance rule only pertains to a live ball situation.

I may adjust my positioning behind F4. I may adjust my set position on a shorter batter. I may even adjust my cup between innings.

I do not adjust my calls just because I want to get a game over faster. Why should I be in such a hurry?

Maybe you shouldnt be ... after all it could always be a rain delay ... with the saying ... "and Four and a half hours later"

It's great to see so many speaking out about not changing because of game situations. :) I hate that idea :mad: and although I sometimes joke about rainy 7th innings and games over the time limit ;) , I hope no one thinks I mean it. :eek:

Sadly, though, apparently some folks really DO mean it. That still just blows me away.

Joking about such things is common among just about any umpire group at any tournament. I never even considered any of it to be serious talk, just good natured ribbing of the poor slob who had the 4 tie-breaker 20 minute innings in a 10U game!

Unless, of course, you're talking about time-shaving in Seattle! :D

But we have to be careful. I once got in trouble for making that kind of joke with my partner which was overheard by a spectator who told a coach.

Guys,

First ASA is not clear on the home run. The home run effect is the ONLY effect of a ball going out of play the does not state in the first sentence, "The ball is dead." Omission by mistake or on purpose, ??? and they have not said.

You are telling me none of you have ever sent a message with a call? I have, and I will, part of game management in my eyes.

Example:

Little league, team winning by 20+ runs, still stealing on every pass ball and taking every close pitch.

1. My strike zone grows, if they can hit it it is probably going to be a strike.
2. Anything close is a out, for the team up.
3. If they keep running, they miss a base or leave early, either way I call a one or two out. Normally the message is heard and they stop running.

Are you protecting the integrity of the game making the losing team stand in the field for 45 min? and get beat for 50?

Well I am sorry I feel that hurts the game and the kids much worst and I am willing to take a hit to my integrity for that. We all know we have coaches out there that will run the score up on there own mother. It has really nothing to do with time of the game or wanting to get home.

Got you beat, ran a league, the two umps got together and said in front of the captains, well we only have 3 min left in the time, so lets not start another inning, and then got in their cars and left. It was the easiest/ quickest protest I ever dealt with.

No, I have not. I don't make up outs to "punish" a coach who I think deserves it. I will adjust the strike zone to the level of play, but not to send a message, and it is the same zone for both sides (to the best of my ability - a fast pitch pitcher vs. a rainbow pitcher is a challenge...). And I certainly do not make anything approaching, or even that could be construed as, a FYC.

That you do is your business, but it is not the noble thing you make it out to be. Quite the opposite. It is not "game management" - it is cheating.

After all you said, you are on a protest committee? Wow! Isn't that kind of like being a driving instructor in India?

This is exactly why I hope I never have to work a game with you. You have determined that you are better than the game, and know what's better for everyone else. You are making up rules and dishonoring the sport. You're a detriment to the game.

Why do you umpire, anyway?

:mad:

Making up rules, no. Making up calls, yes. Like I said if I feel it is out of hand, I am willing to take that hit to my integrity. I feel better me then the kids. So I guess all your points are made.


Like I asked before and getting back to original thread, anyone hear for ASA on a home run being a dead ball?

Dont think its ever a good idea to make a clearly "bad call" for the sake of the game.

If you adjust strikezone in a blow out, so be it. But if then a pitch is beyond that "adjusted limit"... its a ball. Even it it extends an inning, or causes anouter at bat.

Likewise, on a play where you say to your self: Hmm I THINK that runner left early. In "normal" play, I don't call an out on a THINK so, but in a blow out I may do so. But not just because it was close. I gotta really think a replay has at least 50-50 chance of proving correct.

Why do you care? Just call it like you feel at the time.

But, to answer your question (it might matter to someone else) ASA Case Book, 2007

Your thinking this is relevant is another lack of judgement.:(

In this one post, you have:
- refused to accept a clearly obvious rule
- demeaned Little League and its players
- said you can judge what any batter can hit
- demeaned umpiring
- offended everyone else on this forum

I'm curious what you would have done in this situation...

Regardless of who you asked, a comment or two.
Getting to 64 with a 10 after 5 means they got 64 in 5 innings. Found that hard to believe momentarily, but remembered a game that was 21-0 after 2.
I have some concern that someone suggested "the role umpires can take". That should be what it always is, enforce rules, judge plays and let the teams worry about the rest (short of clearly UC).
Personally, I dislike calling deliberate outs either, like the LBR violations coaches invent, supposedly to be nice to the other team.

I go into that game with a HUGE strike zone. Wont change it, but will start huge. To qualify that, I have always have had a tight up, down and out zone. So my huge zone is others just a little bigger then normal.

But, to answer your question (it might matter to someone else) ASA Case Book, 2007
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">PLAY 3.5-8
(FP Only) B1 hits an out of the park home run and, as B1 passes 3B, removes their helmet. The plate umpire calls B1 out.
RULING: When the ball went over the outfield fence, it is no longer a live ball; therefore B1 did not remove their helmet during a live ball and should not be penalized. (3-5E EFFECT)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

SO - after five pages - do we all agree that a home run is not a live ball, thus interference for runner assistance during a live ball cannot be called.

Unless appealed by the defense for missing a base, the B/R will score.

BTW - both NFHS and USSSA specifically rule that a "fair fly ball passing over a fence is a dead ball." Maybe ASA could take a hint.

WMB

Unless the rules body gives the umpire some tools to use (mercy rules, for example), there is little the umpire can OR SHOULD do.

As an aside, when this game was brought up last year, I thought the coach of the winning team was basically a sleaze. Why? This comment by the reporterI don't believe that for a minute. He'd have to be an unbelievably zoned-in coach; and to be that focused on his players' play, if true (which, as I said, no way, Jose), means he was treating the opponent as merely a practice squad - which in a way is even worse.

It took a week for someone to find this? It fits perfect. I will gain change my stance. She is not out. A week Dakota? you sited another one earlier?

I would like to thank all the little people to, what a load of BS.

It only took a week (or five+ pages, take your pick) for SOME of you. There was never any doubt in my mind the ball was dead. Apparently some people need more than a definition (ASA Definitions - DEAD BALL), so I supplied a case play, whose only relevance to the thread is to help those who apparently do not clearly understand the meaning of "not in play" or who somehow imagine that a ball sitting on the ground beyond the outfield fence is still "in play."

Maybe it is like a vampire ball - the undead ball.

BTW, the NFHS rule is identical in effect.

After all, the point of rules like assisting and passing other runners is to prevent any extra advantage in advancing to other bases. If the base is already awarded, especially with a dead ball, what sense does it make to have a rule about advantage?

Exactly, I'll be the first umpire to give another umpire crap for "letting a game" go to tie breaker (or anything delaying).

It doesnt mean i would ever make a call to prevent a game from going to tie breaker.

Of course, if I was in seattle, I wouldnt mind shaving off a few minutes to prevent it.. since its so common the coaches expect it and dont even ask about time :D .

Why do you feel a need to be such a big part of the game? The strike zone is the strike zone in a 10U game and in a NCAA game. It doesn't change or move just because of the talent level. Just like most of us don't make calls based on a game situation, but rather on what actually occurred.

I have noticed that you still haven't answered SRW who asked you the question that I believe we are all wondering; just why do you umpire anyway?!

Strike zone does not change. I have never known any umpire that follows that.

As for the question well maybe I missed it, but I thought SRW was being more rhetorical. You are just being more confrontational. Which is interesting in its own light. No need to ask again, you see know I still did not answer the question. Maybe if you tell me I will tell you. But it is a good question, you can tell my mind is chewing on it. (and as you can see below I guess I did answer)

I mean is it for the enjoyment, yes. The Kids, for sure. The rules, well none of us would be here if we did not like to order of the rules. The power of doing it, do not lie to yourself there is power. The social good, doing it for the community, a job few others will or can do.

My order would have to be Kids, enjoyment, rules, social good(community), and then the ugly truth in the corner power.

Now I have been open with you, what is your order? I would guess rules will be above mine, hence our differences. I see you are a NCAA ump (Skahtboi), to be one I would think rules would need to be 1 or 2.

You know we all learn the first day officiating your ONLY friend at the game is your partner. We have a lot of people reading but few stepping out and posting.

I stopped posting after I saw the correct answer posted. After that, there was no debate for me.

My post may have been a little confrontational. This would be because I feel integrity is a very key trait of an umpire. Not just as far as having respect for the game is concerned, but as far as the entire profession of umpiring is concerned. I am aware, that when I am out there, I am being entrusted with a responsibility to try and get each and every call right. I am looked at by the participants as the one guy who should know the rules, and have the veracity to be fair in all applications of the rules and in the dispensing of my duties on the field. My actions reflect upon all umpires. If I begin to make out calls when a player is clearly safe, as you stated that you do, then I have impunged the profession. (Something I would never conciously dream of doing.) This is what I took exception to in your comments, the fact that you do not fulfill your responsibility correctly.

As to my motivation for umpiring, because I enjoy it, plain and simple. I like the symmetry of the game and the mechanics we use. I like getting out and running around after a tough week of work, and getting some fresh air in my lungs and feeling the sun on my skin. I like the camraderie with fellow umpires. I like the challenge of making the calls and applying the rules. I enjoy the game and its participants (by and large). I just really have fun umpiring.

Well put my boy.

My disagreement with you is not so much order, but definition. Apparently, you believe you are doing the kids a favor when you make incorrect calls to spare their self-esteem (or something). I strongly disagree from two points of view.

1) These kids are playing a competitive sport. It is insulting to the players and a disservice to the game to take upon yourself the role of final arbiter of protecting the player's self-esteem (caused by such things as being badly outscored or having an inadequate pitcher).

2) That is not your job as the umpire, and you do a disservice to all umpires when you make such intentionally wrong calls.

Doing our best to correctly apply the rules to the game being played by the players (as they are playing it) is our job. It is not our job to make our own unilateral adjustments to the rules out of some misguided attempt to protect the players feelings. That doesn't mean we are authoritarian ogres. But we are as impartial and as correct as we know how to be in applying the rules to the game.

Motion seconded and carried.