Canada v. USA

[wadeintothem]

On plays at the plate.. Working inside the plate is terrible and you can easily be in the way... holding area up 3B like is ok on some plays and even necessary in 2man some times... both are inferier to 3Base line extended on plays involving extrabase hits where a swipe tag is probable.

[wadeintothem]

PU should rarely ever go into the diamond when covering 3B. It is better to make the call from outside the line. You can get a great 90 from there. There is no need to come in to get a backwards 90 to 3B. It is inferior on 90% of calls from there and no benefit is gained which would out way the fact your back is turned on most of the players and the field and where the ball is coming from.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

PU should rarely ever go into the diamond when covering 3B. It is better to make the call from outside the line. You can get a great 90 from there. There is no need to come in to get a backwards 90 to 3B. It is inferior on 90% of calls from there and no benefit is gained which would out way the fact your back is turned on most of the players and the field and where the ball is coming from.

The advantage of PU going inside the diamond on calls at 3B is that if the throw's off, you're now out of the way of a potential play at HP. Also, if the runner reacts quickly to the errant throw, they may continue stride and round 3B. You're now in a good position to take them to HP, out of the way of a throw, and it's a shorter distance to get a good 90 on a tag at HP.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

The advantage of PU going inside the diamond on calls at 3B is that if the throw's off, you're now out of the way of a potential play at HP. Also, if the runner reacts quickly to the errant throw, they may continue stride and round 3B. You're now in a good position to take them to HP, out of the way of a throw, and it's a shorter distance to get a good 90 on a tag at HP.

Youre not closer. How can you say youre closer? Are we measuring in in inches? There is no significant difference in distance.

You do make some valid points, although I dont think you are in the way of a rounding runner.

And does it out way the disadvantage of having a play develop behind you?

Outside the line it all developes in front of you. Inside the line you come up, tracking and turn following the play.

If you read it properly, you wont be there on a rounding play anyway, You dont need to be there. You need to be right there on a banger.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Youre not closer. How can you say youre closer? Are we measuring in in inches? There is no significant difference in distance.

You do make some valid points, although I dont think you are in the way of a rounding runner.

And does it out way the disadvantage of having a play develop behind you?

Outside the line it all developes in front of you. Inside the line you come up, tracking and turn following the play.

If you read it properly, you wont be there on a rounding play anyway, You dont need to be there. You need to be right there on a banger.

Let's say you get an errant throw to 3B, and the runner rounds the base. If you're inside the diamond, a 90 degree angle to the tag will probably put you in a line from HP to 2B. Continue that line. Staying inside will put you 2-3 feet closer to 3B than staying outside, especially if the runner hook-slides.

Yes, you won't have other plays in front of you, and that's a disadvantage. However, we're talking 2 umpire mechanics. The BU should be outside, keeping their responsibilities in front of them as well.

Inside-outside theory is just that - a theory. Built into the practice of that theory is the fact that you will often have runners at your back, but those runners should be covered by your partner. It's not perfect.

That's why it's a theory.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Let's say you get an errant throw to 3B, and the runner rounds the base. If you're inside the diamond, a 90 degree angle to the tag will probably put you in a line from HP to 2B. Continue that line. Staying inside will put you 2-3 feet closer to 3B than staying outside, especially if the runner hook-slides.

Yes, you won't have other plays in front of you, and that's a disadvantage. However, we're talking 2 umpire mechanics. The BU should be outside, keeping their responsibilities in front of them as well.

Inside-outside theory is just that - a theory. Built into the practice of that theory is the fact that you will often have runners at your back, but those runners should be covered by your partner. It's not perfect.

That's why it's a theory.

I dont think we are talking about the same positioning if PU is inline HP to 2B. I move a lot quicker than that. If I have a banger at 3 I am there, around 8 feet or so.

R1 @ 1B less than 2 outs, slow developing bunt, play is to 1B, you have play which is obviously developing at 3B. You can pause for the play at 1B pulled foot mumbo jumbo (another ASA flaw, this is not the priority the lead runner is), but you need to be moving up the line, the runner will be rounding by then. Now you have 2 seconds or so.

You should be right there when the play happens.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I dont think we are talking about the same positioning if PU is inline HP to 2B. I move a lot quicker than that. If I have a banger at 3 I am there, around 8 feet or so.

R1 @ 1B less than 2 outs, slow developing bunt, play is to 1B, you have play which is obviously developing at 3B. You can pause for the play at 1B pulled foot mumbo jumbo (another ASA flaw, this is not the priority the lead runner is), but you need to be moving up the line, the runner will be rounding by then. Now you have 2 seconds or so.

You should be right there when the play happens.

Oh, believe me, I hustle my tail off, too! I've heard players yell at the end of the play, even if the call's against them, "nice hustle, blue! THAT'S what I like to see!"

Now, I've not seen the game this thread was originally discussing, and I was more or less skimming the conversation until now. What I'm referring to is my belief that the PU getting on the inside of the diamond on a tag play at 3B is not terrible positioning, and it has many times helped to set me up perfectly for calls at home plate when there is an errant throw. Another aspect that I didn't bring up is the fact that a runner coming from 2B to 3B is already rounding their path, and being on the inside of the diamond helps to get a better 90 on the tag at 3B. Staying on the foul side of the line does not give you that same angle.

You're only sliding over to your right by a foot or two, and you're setting yourself up for the next potential play. Let your partner worry about his/her runners and fielders.