Turning Left after Crossing 1B

[bwbuddy]

I assume the answer to this question is the same in all "diamond" sports, but I saw an NSA 12U fastpitch team called out 4 times in a game last night for this same violation, so:

What's the best way to judge whether or not the batter-runner "attempts" or "turns toward" 2B after crossing 1B, and is therefore subject to be tagged out? I realize it has to be more than just simply turning left to return to 1B, but what do you watch for to determine "jeopardy" -- one step towards 2B, two steps, or something else?

[RKBUmp]

You can turn left and come back to 1st as long as you do not make what would be considered an "aggressive" move to 2nd.

I had a coach arguing that the other night. Kept telling me she turned in. Yes she did, but she never made a move to 2nd, so, she is safe.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

You can turn left and come back to 1st as long as you do not make what would be considered an "aggressive" move to 2nd.

I had a coach arguing that the other night. Kept telling me she turned in. Yes she did, but she never made a move to 2nd, so, she is safe.

This is another one of those myths that grow out what coaches teach. Many will teach players to turn right, thereby avoiding subjectivity and simplifying the coaching. That then becomes the players' and others' idea of what the rule is. Add to that the "shorthand" of someone describing a legitimate appeal as "the runner turned left" and you have an eternal myth.
Then throw in the 1st base overrun in the LBR and ...

The way to judge is to JUDGE whether the runner looked headed for 2nd or just turning, usually based on the step or two after completing the turn.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I had a coach arguing that the other night. Kept telling me she turned in.

What did the coach expect, the runner to stand there staring at the foul pole the rest of the game?

I don't watch anything in particular and really don't pay attention to my eyes.

My gut tells me when the runner is still active and in jeopardy. If I feel the need to prepare to head toward 2B, that runner did something my eyes saw and told my brain to punch me in the gut and said "get going!"

[RKBUmp]

Along the same lines, how would you handle this.

This was a 12 minor LL game a few years back. Kid hit a single, over ran 1st base and turned left, but made no attempt to go to second and was walking back to 1st. Defense coach starts yelling for 1st baseman to tag him out. 1B lunges at runner to tag him, runner on instinct starts trying to avoid the tag and now does make a move toward 2nd and gets tagged.

[NYBLUE]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Along the same lines, how would you handle this.

This was a 12 minor LL game a few years back. Kid hit a single, over ran 1st base and turned left, but made no attempt to go to second and was walking back to 1st. Defense coach starts yelling for 1st baseman to tag him out. 1B lunges at runner to tag him, runner on instinct starts trying to avoid the tag and now does make a move toward 2nd and gets tagged.

Shame on the runner. OUT!

Lesson learned when someone tells the runner he should have simply returned to 1st and allowed himself to be tagged.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by bwbuddy

What's the best way to judge whether or not the batter-runner "attempts" or "turns toward" 2B after crossing 1B, and is therefore subject to be tagged out? I realize it has to be more than just simply turning left to return to 1B, but what do you watch for to determine "jeopardy" -- one step towards 2B, two steps, or something else?

At the training sessions I've been involved with, I've been telling umpires that the way I judge is by the 'flinch factor'. It is basically what Mike just said. If what the runner does, makes me flinch and makes me think that she just made an attempt to advance, then I have her in jeopardy.

It's hard to quantify; mostly just a feeling or reaction to what the runner just did.