Turning it around on the other team

[mikesears]

Working a Freshman game last night and had a situation with a coach come up. Wanted opinions on how to handle it.

Score is 12-8. Home team winning. Visiting team has about 38 seconds left in the game to try and score. They run a reverse with a pass and score on a long 40 yard completion to go ahead 14-12. As I am retreiving the ball, the Umpire in our 4-man crew see the QB run down to the middle of the endzone and begin a dance and he flags him for unsportsmanlike conduct. Coach of visiting team wants to know what flag is about so I tell him that I will get the information to him after the try.

Here is where I need advice

I explain to the coach that the umpire witnessed his QB dancing in the end zone and was penalized for UC. I figured he would go talk to the kid. Instead, he says, "What about when they scored and their player through it out the back of the endzone. Isn't that unsportsmanlike conduct?"

First, if it happened it wasn't seen (and we dont' think it did happen). Second, as described, the player had run through the endzone and simply dropped the ball. Nothing unsporting about that.

Honestly, I was a little suprised that he tried to turn this around on the other team that I just walked away from him. But I should have known he wasn't going to accept the explanation anyway. His body language was closed. (Arms crossed. Chin up. Narrow eyes).

my question

How do you respond when a coach tries to turn a situation around on the opposing team?

Sorry for long post.

[Theisey]

Simple response to that play is, "we didn't see it that way coach" and walk away.

Gee, this is a twist on what I had last night. Working a Freshman A game. Visiting team is getting crushed, but trying for another score to at least make it respectable. I'm on the wing (3-man crew). Visitors line up in a shotgun spread formation, with a 3rd and goal on the 9. The receivers on my end shifted back and forth as if they couldn't figure out who was supposed to be on the line, finally they get set, both of them off the line. I take a look down the line and notice that there's only 6 on the line, because I can see clearly 5 behind the line. Snap goes off, and I drop my yellow hanky. Incomplete pass.

White hat comes over, I tell him what I got. Home team (defense) declines the illegal procedure penalty, making it 4th and goal at the 9. Visiting (offense) coach asks to talk to me and white hat, thinking we had our penalties confused. Coach was claiming since his guys were moving, that it should be a false start. I explained to him that they were shifting, and did get set for a whole second before the snap. I explained what the penalty was. Whole time, my white hat has this expression like, something is wrong with this conversation. Coach was adamant about it should be a false start. It hit me that the coach was still arguing for a penalty against his team. So, I finally said, "Coach, do you realize what you're saying?" He kept on rattling about how it should be a false start, and by then it hit my white hat what was going on. Finally, coach accepted it but wasn't still happy.

Fourth down, offense throws another incomplete pass. Home takes over, but calls a timeout right away since personnel was all wrong and everything (what else do you expect at the freshman level?). During timeout, I meet with R and U at the ball to verify number of timeouts, etc., and told R that coach was trying to pull a fast one on us. White hat said at first he didn't realize what coach was saying till I asked if he realized what he was doing. Then U chirped in and said, boy was he trying to pull a fast one. I looked at him and said, no way!

Our "theory" was that coach wanted the false start because it was a dead ball penalty, and would have ended up being 3rd and goal at the 14 instead of 4th and goal at the 9. No wonder coach didn't answer me when I asked if he realized what he was saying. Geesh!

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Theisey
Simple response to that play is, "we didn't see it that way coach" and walk away.

That does it for me, don't stand there and have a debate about it, one statement and walk away.

[ABoselli]

If you had blown it dead, he would have argued that those guys (recievers) could move before the snap. Since his play wasn't successful, he wanted to get his down back.

As far as turning it around, the past is the past. You're in no position to say, "gee, coach - you've got a point there. OK, we'll pick this one up. Sorry about that!"
If he did do it and you missed it, you missed it, you didn't ignore it - there's nothing to discuss. If he didn't do it (more likely of the two scenarios) there's still nothing to discuss.

Brings home the importance of dead ball officiating.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by mikesears
Sorry for long post.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Originally posted by mikesears


Here is where I need advice

I explain to the coach that the umpire witnessed his QB dancing in the end zone and was penalized for UC. I figured he would go talk to the kid. Instead, he says, "What about when they scored and their player through it out the back of the endzone. Isn't that unsportsmanlike conduct?"

First, if it happened it wasn't seen (and we dont' think it did happen). Second, as described, the player had run through the endzone and simply dropped the ball. Nothing unsporting about that.

Honestly, I was a little suprised that he tried to turn this around on the other team that I just walked away from him. But I should have known he wasn't going to accept the explanation anyway. His body language was closed. (Arms crossed. Chin up. Narrow eyes).

my question

How do you respond when a coach tries to turn a situation around on the opposing team?

I think that the visiting coach is just trying to be an idiot and is doing it very well. Responding to a person is this state of mind will only add fuel to the fire he's hoping to start. It seems from your post that you know exactly what happened on the other TD.

A simple answer is all he needs, something like "there was no foul on that play" or the aforementioned "we didn't see it that way."

I've had sitches where I've asked the coach a question where the obvious answer will require the coach to think about his team. Granted this could backfire, because his thoughts might not be the obvious answer, but it had so far so for me. Maybe that's useful here.

[Jim S]

Originally posted by mikesears

Sorry for long post.

Mike if guys can't read these posts, what makes you think they're going to bother to read the rulebook.
A post is as long as it needs to be.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Jim S

Mike if guys can't read these posts, what makes you think they're going to bother to read the rulebook.
A post is as long as it needs to be.

It appeared a lot longer when I originally typed it.

[INDYREF]

Just a quick question. Since the coach asked for a conference and the ruling stood, was the team assessed a time out?

[mikesears]

Originally posted by INDYREF
Just a quick question. Since the coach asked for a conference and the ruling stood, was the team assessed a time out?

Wasn't a coach-referee conference. It was a coach asking for an explanation of what happened.

[waltjp]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Our "theory" was that coach wanted the false start because it was a dead ball penalty, and would have ended up being 3rd and goal at the 14 instead of 4th and goal at the 9. No wonder coach didn't answer me when I asked if he realized what he was saying. Geesh!

Even in the coach's scenario, it's still a live ball foul. Illegal shift, not a false start.

Penalty declined.

4th down!

True. I didn't think of that. It was just the fact that he "argued" so hard for it to be a different penalty that made me wonder if he didn't have too many concussions as a high school/college player himself.

[SoGARef]

I usually respond, "Coach, that has nothing to do with this call." and walk away.