Missed Home Plate

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Yep call was good. But by attempting to tag that runner the catcher was performing a live ball appeal in a sense. Now where you could have gotten an out is if the F2 would have tagged the plate and said something about the runner missing the base prior to them returning.

In regards to the stepping on the plate and appealing I thought that would have worked but,alas, thats not what happened.

[greymule]

I agree that the call in the OP was correct.

With missed bases, ASA has no stipulation (as in OBR) about having to tag a runner who is "in the vicinity" of the bag or returning to touch it. An immediate appeal is permitted, and is even given as an example in a case play.

My question would be, If the fielder's tagging of the base is an unmistakable appeal of an obvious miss, do I as the umpire still require that the fielder state his appeal?

After all, we don't require such when a runner is halfway to 2B when F3 catches a line drive and steps on 1B.

[Dakota]

Unmistakable? No need to insist on a verbal. You just need to know for sure what the player is doing and why, just as in your example of a caught fly ball.

[softballistough]

So is this the same in fastpitch?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by softballistough

So is this the same in fastpitch?

Yup

[archangel]

Originally Posted by greymule

I agree that the call in the OP was correct.

With missed bases, ASA has no stipulation (as in OBR) about having to tag a runner who is "in the vicinity" of the bag or returning to touch it. An immediate appeal is permitted, and is even given as an example in a case play..

Im curious as to the wording of said caseplay. I can understand the catcher touching home and verbally appealing missed base for an out when the runner has passed home and is making no attempt (or his team is starting to tell him to "touch home!", and he heads back to the plate....but in the OP it stated "immediately" going back to touch home..In that case of continuing play, Im waiting to see what happens before ruling (tagged or not).
Example: runner passes home-missing the plate but diving back to touch, but not before the catcher (making no attempt to tag), yells the appeal while standing on home- I dont think Id honor the appeal, and rule Safe...

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by archangel

Im curious as to the wording of said caseplay. I can understand the catcher touching home and verbally appealing missed base for an out when the runner has passed home and is making no attempt (or his team is starting to tell him to "touch home!", and he heads back to the plate....but in the OP it stated "immediately" going back to touch home..In that case of continuing play, Im waiting to see what happens before ruling (tagged or not).
Example: runner passes home-missing the plate but diving back to touch, but not before the catcher (making no attempt to tag), yells the appeal while standing on home- I dont think Id honor the appeal, and rule Safe...

Then, as stated above, you would be wrong in ASA. A missed base is subject to immediate live ball appeal, which can be made by tagging the runner or touching the base and indicating an appeal. There is no such thing as a continuing play; it is either a live ball, or a dead ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Then, as stated above, you would be wrong in ASA. A missed base is subject to immediate live ball appeal, which can be made by tagging the runner or touching the base and indicating an appeal. There is no such thing as a continuing play; it is either a live ball, or a dead ball.

I think the "continuing play" mentioned is as the umpire is directed to hesitate to allow the play to finish. But, I could be wrong.

[softballistough]

OK so that is the rule in ASA, what about High School?

[charliej47]

The quoted ASA play deals with bases loaded and a missed home plate touch. The reference I find states that a player must be taggedwhen he is advancing if there is no force.

[archangel]

Alt and Grey, thanks for setting me straight...

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I think the "continuing play" mentioned is as the umpire is directed to hesitate to allow the play to finish. But, I could be wrong.

You could be right; but I took it to be a reference to the little ball (OBR) concept, which really has no standing in this discussion. It sounded to me like the poster was determined to use that concept, regardless that it doesn't exist in softball rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

You could be right; but I took it to be a reference to the little ball (OBR) concept, which really has no standing in this discussion. It sounded to me like the poster was determined to use that concept, regardless that it doesn't exist in softball rules.

Gotcha!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

I agree that the call in the OP was correct.

With missed bases, ASA has no stipulation (as in OBR) about having to tag a runner who is "in the vicinity" of the bag or returning to touch it. An immediate appeal is permitted, and is even given as an example in a case play.

My question would be, If the fielder's tagging of the base is an unmistakable appeal of an obvious miss, do I as the umpire still require that the fielder state his appeal?

After all, we don't require such when a runner is halfway to 2B when F3 catches a line drive and steps on 1B.

Maybe that's because that is an unmistakable appeal. Any umpire who is worth his salt can tell the difference between an intentional action to make an appeal and an accidental move that was not meant as an appeal.

[greymule]

2007 ASA Case Play 8.8-13

With no outs and R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, R3 on 3B, B4 hits the ball back to F1 who fields the ball and throws to F2 at the plate after R1 has crossed, but missed, home plate. F2 appeals to the umpire: (a) while R1 is returning to touch home plate, or (b) after R1 has returned and touched home plate.

Ruling: The run is considered to have scored unless appealed. In (a) R1 is out on appeal; in (b) the appeal is denied. (1-Appeal Play; 8-7C & I)

Example: runner passes home-missing the plate but diving back to touch, but not before the catcher (making no attempt to tag), yells the appeal while standing on home- I dont think Id honor the appeal, and rule Safe...

You'd be correct in OBR, which specifically excludes runners who are in the vicinity of the missed base and are attempting to return. ASA's rule is absolute and contains no exceptions. The moment the runner misses a base, the fielder can appeal.