Batter won't even come out of the dugout!!!!

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dakota

It seems in the OP we had a batter refusing to play, not a team. Using the delay rule to call the batter out and moving to the next batter seems like a better fit than a forfeit.

So, if the pitcher refuses to pitch, you would simply award a ball every 20 seconds, if the coach told you "I can't make her"? At no point would you consider this a forfeit? Is there a difference if it is a batter or the pitcher refusing to participate as required by the rules of the game?

I submit that the coach is required and responsible to have the players play the game. Not doing that isn't acceptable. The fact that all subs had been used should be his problem, not ours.

Personally, I would advise the coach that refusing to bat isn't an option; either she takes her turn as required by the rules, or be ejected for refusing to participate in accordance with the rules. Unless he thought to tell me she was injured and unable to continue, I would advise his options are to 1) get her to participate immediately, 2) provide a legal substitute for her immediately, or 3) forfeit the game being unable to produce the required 9 players to continue.

[Dholloway1962]

Above responses are "by the book". The forfeit is overkill, not needed, and not the spirit of that rule (that's strictly my opinion). All that is going to do is make a bad situation worse.

If you want to do the right thing for this particular situation, you did it. Call her out and move on (once again my opinion.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Above responses are "by the book". The forfeit is overkill, not needed, and not the spirit of that rule (that's strictly my opinion). All that is going to do is make a bad situation worse.

If you want to do the right thing for this particular situation, you did it. Call her out and move on (once again my opinion.

I agree with you and the OP as the right thing to do.

[bkbjones]

Call 'er out, switch sides, play ball, and don't forget: only six more outs and it's Miller Time.

[LIIRISHMAN]

You could even say she's injured and take the out right there. Nothing in the book says that a injury needs to be a physical injury. This girl has bigger troubles then a softball at-bat to worry about.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I think some of you are missing the point. It isn't the player.

It is the coach's job to manage the team. Most are talking about addressing the player. It is the coach's job to have a batter in the box. It is the coach's job to control his pitcher and rest of the players.

You don't call the batter to the box, you tell the coach you need a batter. If the girl refuses to bat, it is the coach's job to get her or a substitute in there. If he refuses to do that, there is no reason for him/her to be in the dugout.

It is not the umpire's job or position, to insure the batter bats and the pitcher pitches. If the coach refuses to coach, what is the umpire to do? The coach IS the team. HS umpires know that if you toss the coach and there is not another adult associated with that school present, the game cannot continue.

I'm not looking for a forfeit and I agree that is a very drastic option. However, depending on the situation, you may not have a choice. If there are issues, what happens the next inning when another player balks at approaching the plate? Or maybe a pitcher refuses to throw to a certain batter? If the pitcher will not pitch, the rest of the team cannot play.

Not taking a particular position as every scenario can be different. Just offering food for thought.

[NCASAUmp]

The OP had mentioned that the coach had already used up his subs and couldn't sub the girl out. The player, for whatever reason, had tied the hands of the coach.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If she refuses to bat at that moment, what's a coach to do? He can't force her to bat. He can boot her off the team after that game, but in those 30 or so seconds it takes to call those 3 strikes, there's nothing he can do.

In this scenario, I think things were handled appropriately.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

.....and it's Miller Time.

And that is incentive.....how????

Now if you had said Sierra Nevada Pale Ale time or something along those lines, you would have had my attention.

[Dakota]

Uh oh... here we go again.

Summit Pale Ale. Or Pedigree Bitter.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

And that is incentive.....how????

Now if you had said Sierra Nevada Pale Ale time or something along those lines, you would have had my attention.

I lean more toward the beers Samual Adams, (Well Rounded; Clean Fruit Finish; Great Everyday Beer!) and Chimay, (Dry yet Lightly Sweet; Richly Flavored; Herbal; Strong Alcohol; Fantastic Head! Powerful Ale!)

[Mid-Mich. Blue]

Great post and very thought provoking. I have a question: For those who took an out and continued, would you guys just take another out and continue if her spot in the lineup came up again?

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Mid-Mich. Blue

Great post and very thought provoking. I have a question: For those who took an out and continued, would you guys just take another out and continue if her spot in the lineup came up again?

That depends... did she stay in the dugout again, or did she come to bat like she's supposed to?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Mid-Mich. Blue

Great post and very thought provoking. I have a question: For those who took an out and continued, would you guys just take another out and continue if her spot in the lineup came up again?

It would depend on why she's out. If the coach pulled her from the game and went shorthanded, then yes. If I called 3 strikes for not taking a stance in the batter's box, then it would depend on what she did the next time she came up. If she comes up to bat, she bats. If not, she's out again.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

So, if the pitcher refuses to pitch, you would simply award a ball every 20 seconds, if the coach told you "I can't make her"? At no point would you consider this a forfeit? Is there a difference if it is a batter or the pitcher refusing to participate as required by the rules of the game?

Yes, there is a difference, and I didn't say you couldn't forfeit the game. Just that, based on the OP, the delay rule seems a better fit.

If you want to declare a forfeit and go home, go ahead. You have a rule to back it up.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yes, there is a difference, and I didn't say you couldn't forfeit the game. Just that, based on the OP, the delay rule seems a better fit.

If you want to declare a forfeit and go home, go ahead. You have a rule to back it up.

I can't speak for NFHS, but I'm not going to declare a forfeit simply because one batter (especially a young player) is too upset to take their turn to bat. I'll just call them out for failing to appear at bat.

A forfeit is pretty heavy-handed, and should always be your last resort.