1st Base Control

[mccann]

Batter hits ground ball to F5. F5 throws to F3 who touches bag and then ball comes out of glove. Does F3 have to reach in glove and get ball out of glove to be an out.

[wadeintothem]

No, the fielder must have possession of the ball and touch the base.

Doesnt sound to me like F3 had that working for her.

A fielder dropping the ball on the transfer is different than demonstrating control for a catch or tag or whatever.

Unless the fielder was transferring the ball after an out (say for a throw), I'm not calling an out for that fielder if the ball is rolling around in the dirt, I can tell you that right now.

[Dholloway1962]

Was there are voluntary release of the ball?
Yes = Catch
No= No Catch

[kyleflan]

Originally Posted by mccann

Batter hits ground ball to F5. F5 throws to F3 who touches bag and then ball comes out of glove. Does F3 have to reach in glove and get ball out of glove to be an out.

Are you saying the fielder dropped the ball or the glove? I don't see why she would have to get the ball out of the glove if the ball simply fell.

Agreeing with Dholloway. Voluntary release: catch, runner out. Involuntary: no catch, runner safe if she crosses the base before the fielder secures the ball.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by kyleflan

Are you saying the fielder dropped the ball or the glove? I don't see why she would have to get the ball out of the glove if the ball simply fell.

I think what mccann was asking is does the player have to reach in to have voluntary release, ie be reaching for the ball in order to throw the ball and then drop it. And to me the answer is no. There can be voluntary release without reaching for the ball. If F3 takes the throw for the third out of the inning and then opens her mitt and drops the ball in the pitchers circle as she is running accross the field toward their 3rd base dugout that is a voluntary release of the ball. If the SS is trying to flip the ball from her mitt into her throwing hand for an attempt at a double play at first and the flip goes wild and she drops it, that was voluntary release.

mccann I think what you are looking for is that the release has to be voluntary, and that is umpire judgement. If IMJ the ball was voluntarly released you have an out, if they judge she did not then we have a no control of the ball call and the runner would be safe.

Not to muddy the waters too bad but one other thing...IF the player is attempting another play when she drops the ball the out still stands. For example lets say R1 on 3rd and F6 catches a line drive and throws to F5 (while standing on base) for 2nd out of inning (R1 stupid leading off too far) then R2 is even stupider and has lead off WAY too far and F5 runs toward R2 and tags her...during the tag the ball comes out of her mitt, NOW R2 would be safe (unless there was INT, crash etc.) BUT the R1 would still be out as F5 maintained control through the original play and lost control on a subsequent play. Hope that makes sense.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Just a note speaking ASA

A voluntary release, though a great point of reference in many circumstances, is not REQUIRED.

If the umpire judges that the defender had possession and control of the ball in his/her glove and/or hand(s) while in contact with the base, the ruling should be out.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Was there are voluntary release of the ball?
Yes = Catch
No= No Catch

My understanding is that this is the definition of a catch on a batted ball. However, for a thrown ball, I do not believe there is a need to define what is a "catch".

On a force play, if a fielder has secure possession of the ball when they tag the base (ahead of the runner) it is an out. If they choose to tag the base with the ball/glove and in the process of tagging the base the ball is dislodged, it is not an out. Of course, the fielder usually tags the base with their foot and not the ball.

On a tag play, the fielder is required tag the runner with the ball or ball/glove combination. If in the process of tagging the fielder the ball is dislodged, it is not an out.

These two situations are true whether the fielder has just received the ball via a throw or through a fielding play.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just a note speaking ASA

A voluntary release, though a great point of reference in many circumstances, is not REQUIRED.

If the umpire judges that the defender had possession and control of the ball in his/her glove and/or hand(s) while in contact with the base, the ruling should be out.

Very true!

Thats exactly why you should not drop the ball if I'm-a-judgin it.