The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 08:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pace, FL
Posts: 653
Send a message via AIM to argodad
Opposite Double Call -- Oh $#it!

OK, I'll put myself on report in hopes that others can learn the lesson as well.

NCAA, 2-umpire mechanics. I'm the plate umpire. R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, one out.

Batter hits a little looper over the pitcher's head. F4 charges and dives, clearly getting her glove under the ball. She rolls over, and the next time I see her hands, she has control of the ball. I give a strong verbal OUT! and signal. Only THEN do I look at my partner, who is giving an emphatic SAFE / No Catch. Runners returned to their bases on my call. F4 gets up and throws to F5 for a force at 3rd and then on to F6 on 2nd for the apparent inning-ending double play.

We conference, and my partner tells me that the ball clearly rolled onto the ground while F4's back was to me. We ended up overturning my initial call, giving the out on the force at 3rd, and putting R2 on 2nd and the BR on 1st. My thinking was that I put them in jeopardy with my incorrect call. R2 would have easily reached 2nd without it.

Defense Coach comes unglued and I take my butt-chewing rather calmly, I thought. Next time I'll take the split second to look at my partner before making the call.
__________________
Larry
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 08:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 4,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by argodad
OK, I'll put myself on report in hopes that others can learn the lesson as well.

NCAA, 2-umpire mechanics. I'm the plate umpire. R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, one out.

Batter hits a little looper over the pitcher's head. F4 charges and dives, clearly getting her glove under the ball. She rolls over, and the next time I see her hands, she has control of the ball. I give a strong verbal OUT! and signal. Only THEN do I look at my partner, who is giving an emphatic SAFE / No Catch. Runners returned to their bases on my call. F4 gets up and throws to F5 for a force at 3rd and then on to F6 on 2nd for the apparent inning-ending double play.

We conference, and my partner tells me that the ball clearly rolled onto the ground while F4's back was to me. We ended up overturning my initial call, giving the out on the force at 3rd, and putting R2 on 2nd and the BR on 1st. My thinking was that I put them in jeopardy with my incorrect call. R2 would have easily reached 2nd without it.

Defense Coach comes unglued and I take my butt-chewing rather calmly, I thought. Next time I'll take the split second to look at my partner before making the call.
One of the very first things we are told when we begin this endeavor is what? Come on everybody.......................



















..............slow down!
__________________
Scott


It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 09:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 105
We are taught that fly balls are the PU's call (*).

If so, then the BU should not signal anything.

However, if indeed there was confusion, we are also taught that you should rectify the mess you made, to the best of your ability.

IMO, your final call was more than reasonable. Had you called it no catch right away, it's not clear at all that the defense would have made the complete double play.



___________________________________
(*) Notice that you did not call an infield fly in this case (makes sense as diving for the ball is certainly not "ordinary effort").
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 09:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
You do need to look at your partner to see if he is going out on it. If hes not going out on it, then he needs to not make a call. I think slow down is also good advice. Sometimes, players will give clues as to the result by their reactions. Maybe you BU did get a good look at it and will clue you in. Lots of things can happen.
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 10:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by argodad
....Batter hits a little looper over the pitcher's head. F4 charges and dives, clearly getting her glove under the ball. She rolls over, and the next time I see her hands, she has control of the ball. ....
There was no going out here, as I read it. It was an infield blooper, and apparently not an IF.

Speaking ASA mechanics, this was PU's call all the way, and if BU had not butted in, everything would have been fine. If no coach, etc., wanted to say anything, the out would have stood. If a coach had approached you, said he saw the ball roll out, and asked you to check, there would have been a conference, the out call reversed, and BU put on 1B, other runners advanced as forced.

IMO, the mistake was the BU's here. It was not his call, and he should not have jumped on it.

Presumably, NCAA has the equivalent of ASA rule 10-3-C, so even with this, you could have rectified the situation and nullified the double play and placed runners.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 10:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Presumably, NCAA has the equivalent of ASA rule 10-3-C, so even with this, you could have rectified the situation and nullified the double play and placed runners.
Are you sure? I thought the "God rule" in the NCAA referred to the home coach
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 10:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pace, FL
Posts: 653
Send a message via AIM to argodad
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Are you sure? I thought the "God rule" in the NCAA referred to the home coach
Yeah, that's why she got an extra 10-seconds of free butt-chewing time.
__________________
Larry
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 10:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 4,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Presumably, NCAA has the equivalent of ASA rule 10-3-C, so even with this, you could have rectified the situation and nullified the double play and placed runners.

15.2.14.

Oddly, the case play in the NCAA rule book is similar to what happened here, except it was a bloop to the outfield where a catch is intially made, the umpire rushes his call, only to have the ball dropped, and of course he changes his call and awards the bases necessary.
__________________
Scott


It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 16, 2008, 07:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: north central Pa
Posts: 2,360
I agree with Tom - your partner made a problem for you.
__________________
Steve M
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Calling Official goes opposite chartrusepengui Basketball 20 Wed Nov 07, 2007 03:24pm
Going opposite... eyezen Basketball 24 Mon Oct 29, 2007 03:06pm
The opposite of framing... Dakota Softball 3 Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:43pm
The opposite of baiting DC_Ref12 Basketball 13 Tue Feb 13, 2007 05:04pm
OPPOSITE TABLE ?????? mtbabo Basketball 9 Wed Oct 06, 2004 03:44pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:20am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1