Opposite Double Call -- Oh $#it!

[argodad]

OK, I'll put myself on report in hopes that others can learn the lesson as well.

NCAA, 2-umpire mechanics. I'm the plate umpire. R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, one out.

Batter hits a little looper over the pitcher's head. F4 charges and dives, clearly getting her glove under the ball. She rolls over, and the next time I see her hands, she has control of the ball. I give a strong verbal OUT! and signal. Only THEN do I look at my partner, who is giving an emphatic SAFE / No Catch. Runners returned to their bases on my call. F4 gets up and throws to F5 for a force at 3rd and then on to F6 on 2nd for the apparent inning-ending double play.

We conference, and my partner tells me that the ball clearly rolled onto the ground while F4's back was to me. We ended up overturning my initial call, giving the out on the force at 3rd, and putting R2 on 2nd and the BR on 1st. My thinking was that I put them in jeopardy with my incorrect call. R2 would have easily reached 2nd without it.

Defense Coach comes unglued and I take my butt-chewing rather calmly, I thought. Next time I'll take the split second to look at my partner before making the call.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by argodad

OK, I'll put myself on report in hopes that others can learn the lesson as well.

NCAA, 2-umpire mechanics. I'm the plate umpire. R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, one out.

Batter hits a little looper over the pitcher's head. F4 charges and dives, clearly getting her glove under the ball. She rolls over, and the next time I see her hands, she has control of the ball. I give a strong verbal OUT! and signal. Only THEN do I look at my partner, who is giving an emphatic SAFE / No Catch. Runners returned to their bases on my call. F4 gets up and throws to F5 for a force at 3rd and then on to F6 on 2nd for the apparent inning-ending double play.

We conference, and my partner tells me that the ball clearly rolled onto the ground while F4's back was to me. We ended up overturning my initial call, giving the out on the force at 3rd, and putting R2 on 2nd and the BR on 1st. My thinking was that I put them in jeopardy with my incorrect call. R2 would have easily reached 2nd without it.

Defense Coach comes unglued and I take my butt-chewing rather calmly, I thought. Next time I'll take the split second to look at my partner before making the call.

One of the very first things we are told when we begin this endeavor is what? Come on everybody.......................



















..............slow down!

[Shmuelg]

We are taught that fly balls are the PU's call (*).

If so, then the BU should not signal anything.

However, if indeed there was confusion, we are also taught that you should rectify the mess you made, to the best of your ability.

IMO, your final call was more than reasonable. Had you called it no catch right away, it's not clear at all that the defense would have made the complete double play.



___________________________________
(*) Notice that you did not call an infield fly in this case (makes sense as diving for the ball is certainly not "ordinary effort").

[wadeintothem]

You do need to look at your partner to see if he is going out on it. If hes not going out on it, then he needs to not make a call. I think slow down is also good advice. Sometimes, players will give clues as to the result by their reactions. Maybe you BU did get a good look at it and will clue you in. Lots of things can happen.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by argodad

....Batter hits a little looper over the pitcher's head. F4 charges and dives, clearly getting her glove under the ball. She rolls over, and the next time I see her hands, she has control of the ball. ....

There was no going out here, as I read it. It was an infield blooper, and apparently not an IF.

Speaking ASA mechanics, this was PU's call all the way, and if BU had not butted in, everything would have been fine. If no coach, etc., wanted to say anything, the out would have stood. If a coach had approached you, said he saw the ball roll out, and asked you to check, there would have been a conference, the out call reversed, and BU put on 1B, other runners advanced as forced.

IMO, the mistake was the BU's here. It was not his call, and he should not have jumped on it.

Presumably, NCAA has the equivalent of ASA rule 10-3-C, so even with this, you could have rectified the situation and nullified the double play and placed runners.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Presumably, NCAA has the equivalent of ASA rule 10-3-C, so even with this, you could have rectified the situation and nullified the double play and placed runners.

Are you sure? I thought the "God rule" in the NCAA referred to the home coach

[argodad]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Are you sure? I thought the "God rule" in the NCAA referred to the home coach

Yeah, that's why she got an extra 10-seconds of free butt-chewing time.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Presumably, NCAA has the equivalent of ASA rule 10-3-C, so even with this, you could have rectified the situation and nullified the double play and placed runners.

15.2.14.

Oddly, the case play in the NCAA rule book is similar to what happened here, except it was a bloop to the outfield where a catch is intially made, the umpire rushes his call, only to have the ball dropped, and of course he changes his call and awards the bases necessary.

[Steve M]

I agree with Tom - your partner made a problem for you.