Metal ...

[Dakota]

Anecdotal "evidence" is not evidence of anything in particular. Nonetheless, this is sad:

Injury ends prep career for UT softball signee

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anecdotal "evidence" is not evidence of anything in particular. Nonetheless, this is sad:

Injury ends prep career for UT softball signee

Tom,
That's a shame for the kid. I read the article, her coach said "It all comes back to the metal cleats," Riverdale Coach Jeff Breeden said. "Before the injury, I liked us having them. But if these guys are doing a pop-up slide, they better not pop up. When her cleat hung, it broke the bones instead of rolling the ankle."

I'm going to disagree with her coach and say that this one comes down to poor coaching on how to use metal spikes.

[DaveASA/FED]

I only do ASA JO and High school ball so this is my first year with experience with metal cleats. And to your point Steve, I have seen a LOT of college games where they are performing pop up slides without breaking any bones...I think everyone is just quick to blame the new item for all thier worries, its the metal cleats, she wouldn't have gotten hurt without them. Well who knows? We can't recreate the scene, field conditions girls speed, and exact slide in plastic cleats and see if she breaks anything, or just rolls it....we will never know.

Again very sad for the kid but not fair to put the blame on the cleats. Those cleats just hang off the kids feet it is their responsibility to know how to use them.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

I only do ASA JO and High school ball so this is my first year with experience with metal cleats. And to your point Steve, I have seen a LOT of college games where they are performing pop up slides without breaking any bones...I think everyone is just quick to blame the new item for all thier worries, its the metal cleats, she wouldn't have gotten hurt without them. Well who knows? We can't recreate the scene, field conditions girls speed, and exact slide in plastic cleats and see if she breaks anything, or just rolls it....we will never know.

Again very sad for the kid but not fair to put the blame on the cleats. Those cleats just hang off the kids feet it is their responsibility to know how to use them.

Absolutely, correct. However, you don't if the injury would have occured without the spikes, either. This is the type of info that should be getting collected, not just brushed off with "you cannot prove it was the spikes" responses.

[ronald]

Has anyone ever heard of something similar happening to boys of the same age?

[BretMan]

Heck, it even happens in the pros. These injuries are few and far between, but off the top of my head I remember the exact same thing happening to Davey Concepcion and Robin Ventura.

One of the grisliest injuries I ever saw on the field involved metal cleats. The third baseman on my adult baseball team went to tag a sliding runner. The runner's foot hit his glove, then climbed right up his forearm like it was going up a ramp.

The result was an eight inch long gash that looked like someone had taken a scalpel to his arm. The top layer skin split wide open and the gash was a couple of inches wide in the middle. You could see different layers of tissue and muscle under the top layer of skin.

Suprisingly, it was a clean cut and there was very little blood. Guess it didn't hit a vein or artery.

That was a one time thing. Besides a few minor cleatings, I've never seen anything to that degree before or since.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Tom,
That's a shame for the kid. I read the article, her coach said "It all comes back to the metal cleats," Riverdale Coach Jeff Breeden said. "Before the injury, I liked us having them. But if these guys are doing a pop-up slide, they better not pop up. When her cleat hung, it broke the bones instead of rolling the ankle."

I'm going to disagree with her coach and say that this one comes down to poor coaching on how to use metal spikes.

And of course, as the coach, he has the option to tell his players that he doesn't want to see any metal cleats on the team.

[DaveASA/FED]

Irish,
I agree it should all be collected and analyzed over a number of years and adveraged out then compared to the years of plastic/rubber cleat data we have collected. I am not saying brush it off. I am saying don't jump to conclusions that it was the metals fault. I am an engineer so I look at and analyze data for a living. All I am saying is there are WAY too many variables to isolate metal cleats as the root cause of this injury. It is a possible cause, I am not doubting that, but what people have to understand when anaylzing this data from metal cleats are all the independant and dependant variables that should be considered in the analysis. You have made my point, don't jump to blame the metal, but also don't rule it out completely.

As an umpire I could really care less what shoes you wear (as long as they are legal) but as a father and a volunteer EMT (lazy and don't want more ambulance runs to the ballpark ) I hope that the decision is made to allow the players to wear the safest materials possible to reduce the chance of serious injuries. BUT I also hope that the powers that be do a statistically correct analysis of the data prior to making any change for or against metal.

I do have a question....if this would have happened wearing plastic/rubber would we be talking about it? How many other times has this happened wearing plastic/rubber? I know last year in a local rec league wearing rubber cleats a girl broke her tib/fib sliding into 3rd. So it did happen without metal, again skill level and sh*t happens came into play there, but nobody blamed it on her cleats like they are here.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

....but nobody blamed it on her cleats like they are here.

I think the only person who blamed the cleats was her coach. Maybe that was to deflect anyone who might be thinking it was due to poor coaching.

[DaveASA/FED]

I agree Dakota. It is my fear that all injuries this year will somehow be tied to those dreadfull metal objects that NFHS allowed girls to wear. Those who are against metal will find a way to deflect all blame onto metal cleats and all i am saying is I hope they really analyze the data prior to making any decisions about removing them from the game. Again I have no dog in this fight just looking at it from the outside and I hate when blame is placed on one item without proper analysis.

[NCASAUmp]

My concern with metal cleats is that I've seen the damage they can do... to OTHER people. My sister's ex-boyfriend used to play ball, and he got his hand stomped (accidentally) by someone with metal cleats. One of the more disgusting things I've ever seen. I've seen similar accidents with plastic cleats. The damage was there, but not to the same extent (cuts requiring bandaids vs. multiple stitches).

Metal cleats are simply not necessary. I never wore them when I played ball, and I never had any troubles getting traction, even on crappy fields. I used plastic cleats.

I think the obsession with metal cleats comes from "well, the pros use them, and I want to be just like them." Frankly, we all know where that attitude leads... Just look at Men's Modified.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Anecdotal "evidence" is not evidence of anything in particular. Nonetheless, this is sad:

Injury ends prep career for UT softball signee

What is really sad is:
- a player feeling she let her team down trying to be safe at a base,
- more concern about the cleats than the player,
- having to travel two states away for HS games
- the college coach not being concerned

[Stu Clary]

Reading the thread title, I thought this might be a discussion about Ozzy, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Judas Priest.

I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.

Originally Posted by ronald

Has anyone ever heard of something similar happening to boys of the same age?

That's my argument: Every baseball player around here has metal spikes on his shoes as soon as he turns 13. Why should the girls be any different?

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

Reading the thread title, I thought this might be a discussion about Ozzy, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Judas Priest.

I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.

You sweet talking devil you.

I LOVE the old school metal. And alot of the new bands.
I saw Rob Zombie/Ozzy a couple of months ago. Sharon really needs to let Ozzy retire.

Saw heaven/Hell which is Dio fronying for Sabbath. Also had Alice Cooper and the Ryche on the bill.

Also did Ryche,Judas Priest last year......Ryche at Tahoe this weekend but I'm doing JV championship game

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

That's my argument: Every baseball player around here has metal spikes on his shoes as soon as he turns 13. Why should the girls be any different?

Because girls are physiologically different, as a fact of nature??