Ur Call

[shipwreck]

How about preventative umpiring and not letting the coach make that change? I know, I know, that isn't our job. It sure may save some heartache though. Dave

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

How about preventative umpiring and not letting the coach make that change? I know, I know, that isn't our job. It sure may save some heartache though. Dave

I won't say it can"t, but don't think it would happen in my game. I keep
pretty good records, and do try and prevent these situtations. Using dots
and dashes. I always know who batted last in an inning and who is due
up.

[Shmuelg]

Why would we say that the batter is BOO?

Can we not say that the *actual* substitution was *not* for the runner on base, but the player after that runner. After all, that's what physically happened, correct?

If so, then this is merely an unreported substitute, and if discovered and appealed while the unreported sub is at bat, then no one is out, but the batter is declared ineligible, and is replaced by a legal player. (Rule 4, Sec.8g, ISF).

The bottom line here is what is the substitution? What the manager SAYS, or what the MANAGER does?

[Shmuelg]

As I was writing the end of my above reply, I realized the answer:

It is what the Manager SAYS, not DOES.

After all, he can have players coming in and out, and if he doesn't say anything, they are all unreported subs, which can get him in trouble. Otherwise, why require him to report anything at all.

Yup, it's what he SAYS, is what counts.

[WestMichBlue]

Why don't we have an illegal player at 1B? If Ashley is not in the game, why is she on the field?

But if Ashley is not an illegal player, than she is an unreported sub. She returned to the game for Ashley.

If that is true, then Betty at bat is an illegal player. She previously subbed for Ashley, now is an unreported sub for Kalie, who is next to bat.

But if Betty is a correct, unreported sub, then she is in again for Ashley. So what is Ashley still doing on the field? She has used up her eligibility.

Wait a minute, isn't this were we came in?

I think I would take the easy way out; tell everyone it was my mistake and I am using my umpire authority to correct it - send Ashley to the bench, Betty to 1B, and bring up Kalie with 0 - 1 count.

WMB

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

I think I would take the easy way out; tell everyone it was my mistake and I am using my umpire authority to correct it - send Ashley to the bench, Betty to 1B, and bring up Kalie with 0 - 1 count.

WMB

I like this answer for the specific situation, but what if Betty gets a base hit, advancing runners one base, instead of taking ball 1?

[CecilOne]

What I really like is having an 0-1 count after a "called ball 1"!

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What I really like is having an 0-1 count after a "called ball 1"!

You call ball 1, 2 etc. I just normally call ball, or strike...

[ronald]

Dakota has the same thing. had not read that one carefully. oh well. i came up with it on my own. so i feel good too.

for those who went to the Central Atlantic ASA clinic. What did Luau Bowers say about preventive umpiring? word does not exist as you are preventing the other team from having a violation enforced. However they tell us not to let it happen. Mind boggling. sure wish somebody would make his or her mind up. kind of reminds me of who's on first? out to have a rule book with never call this although it is in the rule book. you know what they say--if you ain't gonna enforce it, then don't write it.

Of course he also told us that in a ASA National tournament the third base umpire called an illegal pitch on a fielder not in fair territory. The ump got the royal screwing but has worked the 2 College World Series since that. You follow the damn rules and get banged anyways.

[Dakota]

How's this:

As soon as the manager reported the sub to the PU, and the PU noted it in his line up card, the sub has officially entered the game and the runner has officially left the game. (3-3-3)

Once the ball is declared live with the starter still on base and the sub at bat, the starter has re-entered the game unreported. (also 3-3-3)

This makes the batter now an illegal substitute (since she entered previously for, say, the #6 slot and is now batting in the #7 slot). She is restricted to the bench and declared out. The starter is back in the game and has used up her re-entry rights.