How to not sell a call...

[BretMan]

Alright, ya weisenheimer, I struck out the extra "s"...

[Tex]

No visual evidence or reaction by the umpire that the runner touched home plate. Based upon fastpitch softball discussions / rules, a runner is safe if passing an untouched base but out on appeal. I saw a tag afterwards by the catcher, but do not see an appeal to the umpire. Therefore I believe a hard safe signal is not warranted, since the runner did not touch home plate. A no call would not have been proper either, but do believe the safe signal should have been quicker.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tex

No visual evidence or reaction by the umpire that the runner touched home plate.

Unless the runner said he didn't, and I don't believe he was in any better position than anyone else to make such a statement, there is no evidence the runner did not touch the plate.

Based upon fastpitch softball discussions / rules, a runner is safe if passing an untouched base but out on appeal. I saw a tag afterwards by the catcher, but do not see an appeal to the umpire. Therefore I believe a hard safe signal is not warranted, since the runner did not touch home plate.

Unfounded presumption.

A no call would not have been proper either, but do believe the safe signal should have been quicker.

A call would only be supported if the umpire did not see the ball and then saw the ball on the ground. Remember, the umpire was 3b-line extended toward 1b, so the ball was out of his sight when the play came home.

BTW, I've been waiting for someone to raise this point, but it hasn't happened. So, I will. If this is softball, the umpire would first raise the left arm, and then the right.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Andy

I basically agree with Bret. McClelland saw that the ball was not caught cleanly, saw that the runner's hand touched the plate while the ball was bouncing around, and felt there was no need for a call at that point. I've heard this before - No ball, no call.

When F2 finally retrieved the ball and went to tag the runner, the easy safe call says, the play's over, he touched the plate.

I do see some validity in Tom's point that considering the importance of the game and the stage of the game at the time, an immediate strong call may be warranted.

I also read through the baseball board thread about the call - some there seem to think that McC was not in the proper position for the play and that contributed to the pause and the nonchalant way the signal was given.

Several thoughts on this one - but know that this is an anniversary weekend and there have been a few glasses of wine, so let's hope the thoughts connect

Andy's heard no ball, no call - I wonder where I've heard that - and agree with it - I just wish I could get that thought across to some of the folks I've done some games with.

Rather than Tom's strong sell, I would prefer to see - when F2 is chasing the ball - a casual point at the plate and then the casual safe signal. I think the casualness would have emphasized that this was a no-brainer.

As for his positioning - atch the replay and I think he started at the point of the plate and hustled to get to the angle he thought would develope into the best. I'd prefer - especially with the way the play developed - to use the old ASA standard of 1B extended, slight up the 3B line. But I am very suer that the best angle would be provided by Emily's 3rd dimension - height, looking down on the play.

Now - off to some more wine.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...
BTW, I've been waiting for someone to raise this point, but it hasn't happened. So, I will. If this is softball, the umpire would first raise the left arm, and then the right.

Hmmm...

Originally Posted by Dakota

PS: I don't want to hear about OBS - this was MLB.

I kind of took it off the table (not that it matters, given the way threads go on this board... )

[Dholloway1962]

Looked good to me. Hesitate, process, then make the call when you have "all the pieces of the puzzle". Wasn't a banger since ball clearly bouncing on ground. Catcher made the missed plate appeal and umpire immediately gave signal.

[wadeintothem]

The best I can come up with is that this was a safe call because he didnt see an out. His call seemed unsure and his reasoning in his interview seemed unsure.

That may have not been a bang bang play, but it was a huge play - a sure umpire would have sold it.

A smarter sell call no matter what you saw would have been better as well.

Everyone makes errors, I think this was a mechanic error on the part of the umpire.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Hmmm... I kind of took it off the table (not that it matters, given the way threads go on this board... )

Was that before or after your edit

I only mentioned it because a few posts did mention softball.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Was that before or after your edit

I only mentioned it because a few posts did mention softball.

I added it with the edit, but the edit was only a couple of minutes after the OP. The only reason I tried to take OBS off the table was because I was focusing on the basic mechanics.

IMO, the umpire's mechanics contributed to the ruckus / controversy, regardless of whether the call itself was correct.

I think Steve M had a good suggestion - something to indicate the runner touched the plate so "never mind, mr F2, he's safe" would also have worked.

It's not so much whether his mechanics were by-the-book correct or not; it is just that in certain situations, the umpire should make an effort to appear decisive, even it he is not.

[Mountaineer]

OK, buf if there was no-tag and the runner touched the plate - what decision is there to make? If there were a mechanic the runner touched the plate you would tip off the F2 by NOT using your mechanic. Again, I have no problem with how the PU handled this one.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

OK, buf if there was no-tag and the runner touched the plate - what decision is there to make? If there were a mechanic the runner touched the plate you would tip off the F2 by NOT using your mechanic. Again, I have no problem with how the PU handled this one.

As I said, by-the-book, maybe, but far too indecisive-appearing. Allow the same timing on the call; how about recognizing the drama of the situation with a but more than...

... (yawn)... Oh, well, safe,... I guess....

[UmpLarryJohnson]

well wont comment on softyball mechs if you dont comment on ours!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson

well wont comment on softyball mechs if you dont comment on ours!

Congratulations on making it to MLB, Larry!

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Congratulations on making it to MLB, Larry!

Not to mention making it through creative writing!

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Not to mention making it through creative writing!

Supreme Court ruled Thursday that folks who do things for politicos can, indeed, lie.

So, Larry, who ya workin for? I didn't know we had another political scientist on board...