conferences

[shipwreck]

Most rule books state that if the defensive coach uses a charged conference, the offensive coach can talk to their player as long as they end it when the defensive charged conference ends and they won't be charged a conference. Flip it around and it is the same way. How about if say the catcher asks for time to talk to their pitcher. It is not a charged conference. Can the offensive coach talk to their player or players at this time and not be charged with an offensive conference? Everbody I ever work with says yes as long as they end it when the catcher and pitcher are done, so as not to delay the game. I cannot find any rule though to support this, either in ASA or NFHS. Can you help? Dave

[Dakota]

That would not be a charged conference because it does not meet the definition of a charged conference.

ASA Rule 1 - Charged Conference

CHARGED CONFERENCE: When a team representative requests a suspension of play or delays the game for the purpose of delivering a message to another team member.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

That would not be a charged conference because it does not meet the definition of a charged conference.

ASA Rule 1 - Charged Conference

Now apply the definition to the rule. A defensive conference is between a team representative from the dugout with any defensive player.

An offensive conference is between a team rep (mgr/coach/scorekeeper/dad, whatever) and a batter, runner or another team rep. These are limited to one per inning.

So, I don't believe a catcher talking to the pitcher is a conference as it would pertain to rule 5.7, therefore there should be no exception for the offensive staff.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I'm not sure I followed your thought process here, Mike. Are you saying it is an offensive conference if the offensive coach talks to a player during a time out requested by the defense if the defensive conference isn't a charged conference?

My perspective and training follows Dakota's thought process. The offense did have a team rep talking with an offensive player, but 1) that team didn't request the suspension, and 2) didn't delay the game. As long as they hold their discussion during the time granted to the defense, this isn't a charged conference to either team.

In other words, any team representative can talk to any team member during any suspension of play caused by the umpires or the other team, as long as 1) they did not request the suspension, and 2) they did not delay the restart by their conversation, without that discussion being termed a "charged conference". This isn't just an exception, as I understand it; it is part of the rule (the request and/or the delay).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I'm not sure I followed your thought process here, Mike. Are you saying it is an offensive conference if the offensive coach talks to a player during a time out requested by the defense if the defensive conference isn't a charged conference?

My perspective and training follows Dakota's thought process. The offense did have a team rep talking with an offensive player, but 1) that team didn't request the suspension, and 2) didn't delay the game. As long as they hold their discussion during the time granted to the defense, this isn't a charged conference to either team.

In other words, any team representative can talk to any team member during any suspension of play caused by the umpires or the other team, as long as 1) they did not request the suspension, and 2) they did not delay the restart by their conversation, without that discussion being termed a "charged conference". This isn't just an exception, as I understand it; it is part of the rule (the request and/or the delay).

To start, forget about the "charged conference". Tom was talking about a pitcher-catcher discussion. According to 4.7, this is not a charged conference unless joined by someone from the dugout.

According to RS#9.B, it specifically states that it is not an offensive conference when a team rep confers with a batter and/or runner(s) during a defensive charged conference. Well, a pitcher/catcher talk is not a defensive charged conference according to 4.7.B or RS#9.A, therefore the exception noted doesn't apply.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to eject the coach. However, if I turn around and tell the coach that he cannot be talking to his batter or runners not on the base adjacent to where that coach may be stationed, I'm going to expect the coach to immediately return to their position whether I'm ready to put the ball into play or not.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

TAccording to RS#9.B, it specifically states that it is not an offensive conference when a team rep confers with a batter and/or runner(s) during a defensive charged conference. Well, a pitcher/catcher talk is not a defensive charged conference according to 4.7.B or RS#9.A, therefore the exception noted doesn't apply.

True, that exception does not apply, but whatever the offense was doing, it was not a charged conference, since it did not meet the definition of a charged conference. IOW, the exception noted in RS 9 is not really needed.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

True, that exception does not apply, but whatever the offense was doing, it was not a charged conference, since it did not meet the definition of a charged conference. IOW, the exception noted in RS 9 is not really needed.

Well, that would be up to the umpire. Think about the conferences between the pitcher and catcher. Most last less than the time it would take for a coach to get to the batter. If they last longer, it's probably because someone is giving them info from the dugout and that IS a charged conference.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to eject the coach. However, if I turn around and tell the coach that he cannot be talking to his batter or runners not on the base adjacent to where that coach may be stationed, I'm going to expect the coach to immediately return to their position whether I'm ready to put the ball into play or not.

My question (and issue) is why you would tell the coach he cannot talk to them. He has not requested you suspend play, he is not delaying the game. He is not have a "conference"; he is talking to his player during a stoppage. What rule is he violating?

Let's start at the "nth" degree and work back, perhaps. If there was an injury stoppage, and while the defense was attending to that injured player, and a new picher had to warm up, would the offense not have the right to talk? I think everyone would allow that. Now, just an injury stoppage checking the status of players that collided, we would allow the offens eto talk, right? So, working backwards, there is no reason why either team should be limited from having a discussion during any stoppage they didn't request, as long as they don't delay the restart.

Let's be the protest committee on that one. As the coach, I protest your refusal to allow me to talk to my batter during a stoppage requested by the defense. Or I protest your decision to make that a charged conference when I ended as soon as you said "Let's Play". What rule would you apply that states I cannot do that?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

My question (and issue) is why you would tell the coach he cannot talk to them. He has not requested you suspend play, he is not delaying the game. He is not have a "conference"; he is talking to his player during a stoppage. What rule is he violating?

Let's start at the "nth" degree and work back, perhaps. If there was an injury stoppage, and while the defense was attending to that injured player, and a new picher had to warm up, would the offense not have the right to talk? I think everyone would allow that. Now, just an injury stoppage checking the status of players that collided, we would allow the offens eto talk, right? So, working backwards, there is no reason why either team should be limited from having a discussion during any stoppage they didn't request, as long as they don't delay the restart.

Let's be the protest committee on that one. As the coach, I protest your refusal to allow me to talk to my batter during a stoppage requested by the defense. Or I protest your decision to make that a charged conference when I ended as soon as you said "Let's Play". What rule would you apply that states I cannot do that?

I'm being overly picky on this one looking to take the discussion a little farther. I'm playing off the wording. Figured it was my turn.

RS#9.B "It is not an offensive conference when a teamp representative confers with a batter and/or runner(s) during a defensive charged conference as long as they are ready to play when the defense is ready, or when the pitcher is putting on a warm-up jacket"

Since the pitcher/catcher discussion is not a defensive charged conference why should the coach (and for this, I'm talking about a coach who has already used that inning's OC) be allowed to go talk to the batter.

Now, the argument will be, but they did not request a suspension of play. That is true. Question: When a batter steps toward the 3B coach after a pitch and she similarly just holds up a hand instead of being verbally specific, are you going to relax, maybe call time as a preventive measure?

If you do, do you consider that an offensive conference even though the team did not specifically request it?

Yes, I'm beating around the bush. Tom pointed out the definition of a charged conference. I pointed out that what the definition is and how it is applied by rule may not be the same thing. Then I moved to the exception. That is where I was trying to go with this. The definition, rule and exception mesh well in some areas and may cause a gap in others.

Does the rule need to be specifically applied for the exception to exist or do we slide over some of this because (as Steve has pointed out a few times already) there was no delay in the game.

Yeah, my long route has definitely convoluted the attempted point. Maybe I should just give up on this one and start again at a later date.

[Steve M]

"Does the rule need to be specifically applied for the exception to exist or do we slide over some of this because (as Steve has pointed out a few times already) there was no delay in the game."

I am going to slide over this kind of thing - as long as there is no delay.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm being overly picky on this one looking to take the discussion a little farther. I'm playing off the wording. Figured it was my turn.

RS#9.B "It is not an offensive conference when a teamp representative confers with a batter and/or runner(s) during a defensive charged conference as long as they are ready to play when the defense is ready, or when the pitcher is putting on a warm-up jacket"

Since the pitcher/catcher discussion is not a defensive charged conference why should the coach (and for this, I'm talking about a coach who has already used that inning's OC) be allowed to go talk to the batter.

Now, the argument will be, but they did not request a suspension of play. That is true. Question: When a batter steps toward the 3B coach after a pitch and she similarly just holds up a hand instead of being verbally specific, are you going to relax, maybe call time as a preventive measure?

If you do, do you consider that an offensive conference even though the team did not specifically request it?

Yes, I'm beating around the bush. Tom pointed out the definition of a charged conference. I pointed out that what the definition is and how it is applied by rule may not be the same thing. Then I moved to the exception. That is where I was trying to go with this. The definition, rule and exception mesh well in some areas and may cause a gap in others.

Does the rule need to be specifically applied for the exception to exist or do we slide over some of this because (as Steve has pointed out a few times already) there was no delay in the game.

Yeah, my long route has definitely convoluted the attempted point. Maybe I should just give up on this one and start again at a later date.

In order for a conference to be charged, one of two things has to occur. Either 1) Time is requested or 2) a delay in the game has occurred. Both for the purposes of delivering a message to another team member.

If the offense has not had a conference this inning and the 3rd base coach leaves the box to talk to the batter without requesting time, what are you going to do? I'll will call time and inform the coach he's had his one conference. Why? Because he delayed the game to communicate with the batter. That's part 2 of the definition.

In the OP, the defense has caused the delay, not the offense. The offense also did not request time. The defense did. So nothing the offense did fits the definition of a charged conference. You are correct that the catcher talking to the pitcher is not a defensive conference. However, the exception in RS 9.B is simply there to say that when the defense is having a charged conference the offensive coach or team representative can also communicate with his/her players without being charged a conference. The intent of this rule is to prevent unnecessary delays. As long as the offense is ready to resume play, I have no problem with allowing them to communicate. I believe the rules and the intent support me on this.