Worked at the PFX tour this weekend - Part I: The Ugly

[Julio Caliente]

I remembered one more.....


Runner on first and third (I still need to get the nuances of SB down with the R3, R2, etc) with an obvious bunt coming. F5 is playing way in, so in that she covered home on a passed ball. BU calls time and tells F5 she cant play that close. I have no idea what rule he was quoting or what. When I asked him after the game all he said was that he felt it was unsafe for her to play that close. Now, it might have been but I don't think that is his call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Julio Caliente

I remembered one more.....


Runner on first and third (I still need to get the nuances of SB down with the R3, R2, etc) with an obvious bunt coming. F5 is playing way in, so in that she covered home on a passed ball. BU calls time and tells F5 she cant play that close. I have no idea what rule he was quoting or what. When I asked him after the game all he said was that he felt it was unsafe for her to play that close. Now, it might have been but I don't think that is his call.

Speaking ASA

The only rule an umpire could take action upon as it relates to the fielder's position (other than in fair territory) would be under 6fp.5.B, Defensive Positioning. However, the umpire would have to judge that the fielder was in the batter's line of vision or in an unsportsmanlike intent act in a manner to distract the batter. However, it isn't repositioning of a player, but an ejection.

[Julio Caliente]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

The only rule an umpire could take action upon as it relates to the fielder's position (other than in fair territory) would be under 6fp.5.B, Defensive Positioning. However, the umpire would have to judge that the fielder was in the batter's line of vision or in an unsportsmanlike intent act in a manner to distract the batter. However, it isn't repositioning of a player, but an ejection.

This was not the case for sure.


There were also quite a few double calls that game on pop flys and fly balls in that game.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

"Blue, did she miss home plate?"

That's a good enough appeal for me.

How is this good enough, coming during a live ball AND coming from the coach?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

How is this good enough, coming during a live ball AND coming from the coach?

For one, the ball wasn't live. And as we all know, dead ball appeals can come from any participant. But having gone back to read that and carefully re-reading that long post this time, the coach coming out when they did and saying what they did wouldn't be good enough for me. At that time, any appeal, proper or otherwise, live or dead, would have been moot.

But, in a normal dead ball situation where an appeal could be allowed, I still think that I would have accepted that.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

...And as we all know, dead ball appeals can come from any participant....

Not in ASA. Any infielder, but not any participant.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Not in ASA. Any infielder, but not any participant.

True enough. I stand corrected. Just another brain fart, I guess.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

For one, the ball wasn't live. And as we all know, dead ball appeals can come from any participant. But having gone back to read that and carefully re-reading that long post this time, the coach coming out when they did and saying what they did wouldn't be good enough for me. At that time, any appeal, proper or otherwise, live or dead, would have been moot.

But, in a normal dead ball situation where an appeal could be allowed, I still think that I would have accepted that.

"I signal a "weak" safe call, and DHC asks me "Blue, did she miss home plate?" " I'm trying to see why you think the ball was dead. Sounds like the coach's comment came immediately following the safe call. If the runner missed, surely she's still close enough in ANY level of ball to not kill the play that quickly.

And no ... the coach can't make the DBA. I guess we don't "all know" this, since it's false.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

"I signal a "weak" safe call, and DHC asks me "Blue, did she miss home plate?" " I'm trying to see why you think the ball was dead. Sounds like the coach's comment came immediately following the safe call. If the runner missed, surely she's still close enough in ANY level of ball to not kill the play that quickly.

And no ... the coach can't make the DBA. I guess we don't "all know" this, since it's false.

You know, I need to try to quit reading and replying to this at work with so many distractions. For some reason, on my "careful" re-read, I just caught the part where he said the coach came out between innings and thought that was when he asked the question.

There is my one to miss on this board for the year. Now back to work.

[UmpLarryJohnson]

what is a 'weak' safe call?? --puzzled--

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson

what is a 'weak' safe call?? --puzzled--

Just a routine hands out to the side with no verbal call.

[Julio Caliente]

Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson

what is a 'weak' safe call?? --puzzled--

I use a "weak" safe call when something like this happens. Basically, I do not verbalize safe and its kind of a half-hearted motion. In my opinion she had "attained" the plate. Her entire body (legs, feet, and all) had passed the plate before they was an attempt to put her out, actually there never was an attempt to put her out. I signaled safe and that point it was up to the defense to either tag her or appeal. I treated it the same way I would have if a runner had "attained" first base (entire body past the bag) before the throw arrived, but didn't tag the base. In that situation I would wait to make sure that the runner did not hit the base with their trailing foot, make a weak safe call, and then wait for a live ball appeal. If the runner comes back and retouches first before the live ball appeal then there can be no appeal.

If my mechanics in this situation are wrong I am open to suggestions.

[Al]

[QUOTE=Julio Caliente]I use a "weak" safe call when something like this happens. Basically, I do not verbalize safe and its kind of a half-hearted motion. In my opinion she had "attained" the plate. Her entire body (legs, feet, and all) had passed the plate before they was an attempt to put her out, actually there never was an attempt to put her out. I signaled safe and that point it was up to the defense to either tag her or appeal. I treated it the same way I would have if a runner had "attained" first base (entire body past the bag) before the throw arrived, but didn't tag the base. In that situation I would wait to make sure that the runner did not hit the base with their trailing foot, make a weak safe call, and then wait for a live ball appeal. If the runner comes back and retouches first before the live ball appeal then there can be no appeal.

In all my little-league, major, pony, high school playing in the catchers position I do not remember an umpire calling someone safe who didn't touch the plate, even if the runner clearly beat an attempted tag. I remember umpires making no call and that usually alerted the coaches, or the catchers to try to tag the runner out before he does touch the plate. In those more rare times when a runner misses the 1st base bag but clearly beats the throw a safe call would be made and if no live ball appeal comes before the runner retouches there remains no more appeal available. Is a missed plate in softball treated the same as a runner that misses 1st base? Are we to call the runner safe when she missed the plate just because no tag was attempted? I ask for more comments and direction from the board to help clear up my understanding. I have two years under my belt umpiring and three years coaching but the more I think I know the more I realize I have a whole lot to learn. .. Al

[IRISHMAFIA]

[quote=Al]

Originally Posted by Julio Caliente

I use a "weak" safe call when something like this happens. Basically, I do not verbalize safe and its kind of a half-hearted motion. In my opinion she had "attained" the plate. Her entire body (legs, feet, and all) had passed the plate before they was an attempt to put her out, actually there never was an attempt to put her out. I signaled safe and that point it was up to the defense to either tag her or appeal. I treated it the same way I would have if a runner had "attained" first base (entire body past the bag) before the throw arrived, but didn't tag the base. In that situation I would wait to make sure that the runner did not hit the base with their trailing foot, make a weak safe call, and then wait for a live ball appeal. If the runner comes back and retouches first before the live ball appeal then there can be no appeal.

I don't understand why this call would be any different than the 50 other calls at 1st base?

[BretMan]

Al,

The instruction given for most in the baseball world tells the umpire that when a runner misses the plate NO signal is given.

ASA umpire mechanics are different on this point. The manual says to wait a second for the players to react, then give a safe signal.

Why the baseball and softball world are divergent on this point, I don't know. But it's just another one of those little things to keep seperate for guys that work both sports.