Stupid rule...

[Mountaineer]

Unfortunately, I believe that rule is a coming attraction for softball. Rumor has it that it's only a year or two away.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Unfortunately, I believe that rule is a coming attraction for softball. Rumor has it that it's only a year or two away.

It would make absolutely no sense to have this type of rule for softball. The mechanics of pitching are totally different in this sport than in the little ball sport. There is no real stress put on any part of the arm, if the player has been coached correctly, in softball. What would be the benefit, then, of such a rule?

Also...where are you hearing your "rumors" from?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

It would make absolutely no sense to have this type of rule for softball. The mechanics of pitching are totally different in this sport than in the little ball sport. There is no real stress put on any part of the arm, if the player has been coached correctly, in softball. What would be the benefit, then, of such a rule?

Also...where are you hearing your "rumors" from?

I was looking on here to find the thread I read something about it - there was in interesting article posted about the stress that is actually put on a female's arm when she throws and that they are now thinking it's more stress than we used to believe. I have also spoken with a couple of DA's that just returned from Williamsport and they told me that they look for it to happen in softball. I don't like it either but there are other rules I don't like and have to live with them. I guess this is one more . . .

[NCASAUmp]

Well, considering it's roughly the reverse motion of a volleyball swing, it doesn't surprise me that this could become an issue. My right rotator cuff tendon is 50% severed from all the hitting I've done.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

It would make absolutely no sense to have this type of rule for softball. The mechanics of pitching are totally different in this sport than in the little ball sport. There is no real stress put on any part of the arm, if the player has been coached correctly, in softball. What would be the benefit, then, of such a rule?

I believed this for years. Certainly there is less stress on the shoulder than in baseball pitching, but softball overuse injuries are still posible. My DD was an above-average HS and JO pitcher. Her mechanics were sound, and every pitching coach who saw her loved her wrist snap. At age 17 she was diagnosed with a stress fracture to the tip of her radius. She never pitched another inning. (Fortunately, she hit well enough to put herself through college by swinging a bat.) I really think that if I had restricted her pitching "just a bit" the results would have been different.

[Dakota]

I don't object to the idea of the rule itself in 12U baseball. What I find stupid is a rule so rigid it does not allow a kid to pitch to one more batter when he has a no-hitter going in the LL world series! The rigidity is stupid. There should be a possiblity of exception in certain exceptional circumstances.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I don't object to the idea of the rule itself in 12U baseball. What I find stupid is a rule so rigid it does not allow a kid to pitch to one more batter when he has a no-hitter going in the LL world series! The rigidity is stupid. There should be a possiblity of exception in certain exceptional circumstances.

Yes, but you know how coaches can be - and they would certainly try to come up with different ways to bend the rule. You know the whole inch into a mile thing . . .

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Yes, but you know how coaches can be - and they would certainly try to come up with different ways to bend the rule. You know the whole inch into a mile thing . . .

Yes, I understand, but it is very sad that the kid was within one out of pitching a no-hitter in the LLWS and was removed from the game.

There should be SOME wiggle room for the LLWS.

Drop the pitch count to 80, but allow the pitcher to finish the inning.

Ignore the pitch count (coach's discretion) for a no-hitter.

Something.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

It would make absolutely no sense to have this type of rule for softball. The mechanics of pitching are totally different in this sport than in the little ball sport. There is no real stress put on any part of the arm, if the player has been coached correctly, in softball. What would be the benefit, then, of such a rule?

Also...where are you hearing your "rumors" from?

I agree - it makes little sense in softball for exactly the reason you mention.

I'll tell you what I'd like to see in the NCAA Softball College World Series, however: Something that forces a team to bring in a 2nd pitcher at some point in the tournament.

This would prevent a team from riding the coattails of a dominating pitcher when their team, as a whole, may not be as good as another. I think a 2nd pitcher should be tasked with "holding down the fort", to some extent, at some point in the tournament, even if only a brief appearance.

Pitching is disproportionately a critical element of the game in fastpitch softball. When balancing the importance of good hitting and good defense, pitching tips the scales to a huge degree. A dominating pitcher can make even an average team look great. And she can do it for every pitch, of every game, for the duration of the tournament.

Generally speaking, in fastpitch softball, if you don't have a pitcher - you don't have a chance. On the other hand, if a team is weak in several categories; as long as they have a dominating pitcher - they always have a chance. How good does your defense have to be if your pitcher is striking out 12-15 batters a game? How good does you offense have to be when your pitcher has an ERA of 0.73?

In short, I'd like to see some more pitching depth in the College World Series. I'm not sure how that can be done, however.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

I'll tell you what I'd like to see in the NCAA Softball College World Series, however: Something that forces a team to bring in a 2nd pitcher at some point in the tournament....

Yeah. The NCAA should also require the football teams to play at least one series with the second string QB; the basketball teams to limit centers to 35 minutes; hockey teams to require the use of two goal tenders, etc.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Pitching is disproportionately a critical element of the game in fastpitch softball. When balancing the importance of good hitting and good defense, pitching tips the scales to a huge degree.

This is a bad thing because...?

That's the way FP has ALWAYS been and will ALWAYS (I hope) be. If you want T-ball, go to a local league and watch. It's exciting. If you have leagues where every kid bats every inning, you could have an inning with two quadruple plays. I know...been there, seen with own eyes.

If you want offense, go see some SP.

FP is a different animal. The game may well evolve into something different, perhaps during our lifetimes, perhaps later. FP now is much the way baseball was 120 years ago.

[NewNCref]

Dakota,

I agree with you that it stinks that this kid got pulled when he was pitching a no-hitter. But I think part of the problem with putting in an exception is that, at the local level, it would be abused and difficult to enforce. For example, I'm sure we've all had those games where there are a thousand errors (or at least that's what it seems like). Does the game where the defense is stinking it up but the pitcher hasn't technically given up a hit still count? Well, it would be hard to word it so that it didn't, but no one is really interested in preserving that "no-hitter." Not to mention, what happens when one score keeper scores something an error and the other scores it a hit. It's just a big mess.

LL says that this rule is to prevent overuse, and regardless or whether that is true or not, if that's what they're going by, then it only makes sense to strictly limit pitchers to a certain number of pitches.

It varies by players, but unfortunately, there are coaches that are more interested in another win than the health and safety of their pitchers. Furthermore, there are coaches, more so at the local level than the LLWS level, that simply don't know that much about it, and could unknowingly be hurting their pitcher.

[Dakota]

Doesn't LL already have different rules in the tournament than in regular league play? (Participation rules, for example)? An adjustment to the pitch count rule could be made to only apply to the final 16 tournament, where presumably defenses are better and there is an official scorekeeper.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

FP now is much the way baseball was 120 years ago.

You mean, when a batter could call for a high or low pitch, and the pitcher had to deliver it to him, and when it took seven balls to issue a walk? Or, if you are talking about scoring, you mean when the Baltimore Orioles scored an average of 14 runs per game, which is far more than any other team in the 20th and 21st centuries? Or, are you talking about when the Chicago Colts(Cubs) scored 36 runs in one game?

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

You mean, when a batter could call for a high or low pitch, and the pitcher had to deliver it to him, and when it took seven balls to issue a walk? Or, if you are talking about scoring, you mean when the Baltimore Orioles scored an average of 14 runs per game, which is far more than any other team in the 20th and 21st centuries? Or, are you talking about when the Chicago Colts(Cubs) scored 36 runs in one game?

None of the above. Not even taking nine balls (which it really didn't...nor did it really take seven...and I can explain if you want) for a base on balls.

No...I mean when the pitchers were at 50 feet and no one was scoring hardly ANY runs.

And...the game in which the Colts scored all those runs was against the Louisville team which soon had the manager and five players expelled from baseball for inveterate gambling and throwing games. You'll find that a hall of famer then became their managers...and the Louisvillians were usurped by a team...and the rest is history.

If memory serves me right (and I could Google it, but that would be cheating since the rest of this has all come from memory), the Orioles scored all those runs when the distance was first moved to 60'6" (which was NOT a surveryor's mistake). Once the pitchers adjusted, it was all downhill.

Just as baseball exploded the year the pitchers moved back to 60 feet, we can expect something similar if NFHS goes to 43.

Want more offense in college? It will not happen anytime soon, but just move the pitchers back another three feet -- or seven feet to a full 50.