New position for BU

[BuggBob]

Okay I'm not making this up. ASA fast pitch, runner on third, my partner is between the 2nd baseman and 2nd base. He claims it allows him a better view of the play at first, but that the plate umpire then has the throw back at 3rd. I tell him to get over to the correct position. He just shrugs and stays put. Looking of suggestions on what (if anything) you all would have done.

Bugg

[CecilOne]

1) Cover 3rd as best you can.
2) Find another partner.

BTW, the view at 1st is better from B1 than B2.

[Andy]

What Cecil said....

FWIW, I have heard of a variation of this coming over from baseball.

Some two-umpire BB mechanics are teaching that with a runner on third only, the BU should start in the B position behind F4. The reasoning is that the BU is in a better position for the "most likely" play at first if the ball is put in play, but can still have an angle for a pickoff attempt at third. In any case, the BU still has the P/O at third as the PU will likely be looking straight up the back of a runner returning to third.

[MNBlue]

How difficult is it to see a force play at first from C? Read the play, move in, make the call. Isn't the PU observing if the BU needs help on a pulled foot/swipe tag?

I've always thought that, if you want to WORK, working the bases correctly can be a lot of work. For those blues that aren't interested in working on the bases, I don't think getting closer is going to improve their judgement.

I don't follow the logic for the argument.

[bigsig]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Okay I'm not making this up. ASA fast pitch, runner on third, my partner is between the 2nd baseman and 2nd base. He claims it allows him a better view of the play at first, but that the plate umpire then has the throw back at 3rd. I tell him to get over to the correct position. He just shrugs and stays put. Looking of suggestions on what (if anything) you all would have done.

Bugg

While out of position in ASA, that is our recommended FED (NFHS) position with a runner on 3rd. IMO it does give you a good view of throw back to 3B and a much better position for calls at 1B.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by bigsig

While out of position in ASA, that is our recommended FED (NFHS) position with a runner on 3rd. IMO it does give you a good view of throw back to 3B and a much better position for calls at 1B.

That must be for baseball, since my NFHS Umpires Manual says differently.

page 58
Runner on Third Base Only - Fast Pitch

Field Umpire:

1. Take a position two or three steps behind and to the shortstop's right. Be cautious so as not to interfere with the outfielders view of the batter or a play by the infielders.
2. If a ball is hit to the infield wait until the fielder commits herself, then move quickly toward that base. Don't take your eyes off the ball.
3. Call all plays made on the first throw of the ball unless it is to home plate. Take the batter-runner into third base and see that all bases are touched.
4. Refer to Field Umpire Section

[umpharp]

Maybe your partner does a lot of slow pitch. Everything he said was correct...if it was ASA slow pitch.

I hadn't heard of high school going to that mechanic....

In all fast pitch that I know of, the base ump should be somewhere in the C slot with runners on 2nd or 3rd.

To answer your question. I would get through the game as best as I could, then tell your partner when you are in private that you will A) never work with him again. B) you will be reporting the sitution to your local UIC.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by umpharp

Maybe your partner does a lot of slow pitch. Everything he said was correct...if it was ASA slow pitch.

Only if F4 was playing extremely deep. Otherwise, the BU in SP with a runner on 3B only should be off F4's left shoulder.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Only if F4 was playing extremely deep. Otherwise, the BU in SP with a runner on 3B only should be off F4's left shoulder.

Check your March 2007 Rules Clarifications on this one, Mike. Pg. 251 Situation 9 diagram, and Pg 252 #8 was changed...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Check your March 2007 Rules Clarifications on this one, Mike. Pg. 251 Situation 9 diagram, and Pg 252 #8 was changed...

You are correct, but it makes no sense.

In this SP scenario, the BU is responsible ONLY for the BR at 1B. The PU is responsible for any play or tag up at 3B, so there is no need to put F4 between the BU and his point of responsiblity.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by bigsig

While out of position in ASA, that is our recommended FED (NFHS) position with a runner on 3rd. IMO it does give you a good view of throw back to 3B and a much better position for calls at 1B.

Not in NFHS FP softball. You should be in the standard ASA C position.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by bigsig

While out of position in ASA, that is our recommended FED (NFHS) position with a runner on 3rd. IMO it does give you a good view of throw back to 3B and a much better position for calls at 1B.

Using the standard Fed 'C' position and working between pitches, you'll have your 90-degree angle on that pickoff at 3B from 10 feet or so. By reading the play, going to 1B and hustling, you should be near the circle for the call at 1B. Your recommended Fed positioning appears to be lazy.

[Dutch Alex]

Here in the Neth.'s we are using the method as writen in opening post, BUT only with two out. With two down a pick off on 3th base isn't common and most plays will go on 1st base. It's the way we're supposed to work...

[bigsig]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Using the standard Fed 'C' position and working between pitches, you'll have your 90-degree angle on that pickoff at 3B from 10 feet or so. By reading the play, going to 1B and hustling, you should be near the circle for the call at 1B. Your recommended Fed positioning appears to be lazy.

It's not my recommended position, it's our UIC's.
It is NFHS Fastpitch
Here is why I like it: Just My Opinion
If you are in the C psoition and the SS is playing deep, near the outfield grass, your angle to 3B is NOT 90 degrees but it is 90 degrees if you are positioned just off of 2B. In addition, in the C psoition, with a deep SS, you could be more than 100 feet from 1B. If the ball is hit to the left side of the feild there's not much chance of getting inside and therefore you are making a call from a long distance. Positioned near 2B you are less than 60 feet from either 3B or 1B.
There is a difference between being smart and lazy.
IMO it's a good idea.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by bigsig

It's not my recommended position, it's our UIC's.
It is NFHS Fastpitch

It is not the recommended mechanic for NFHS Fastpitch. (See previous replies)

Originally Posted by bigsig

It's not my recommended position, it's our UIC's.
If you are in the C psoition and the SS is playing deep, near the outfield grass, your angle to 3B is NOT 90 degrees 2B you are less than 60 feet from either 3B or 1B.

There is a difference between being smart and lazy.
IMO it's a good idea.

Once the catcher catches the pitch, or more specifically, when the batter doesn't hit the pitch, I'm moving to get into position to make the next probable call, the pick at third. Umpiring isn't about standing around and waiting for a play to happen, it's OK to move to a new position once the situation has changed.