NFHS 2008 rule changes

[SRW]

Wait a minute here. I call bull$h!t.

Originally Posted by Bandit

I can't believe bkbjones stated "NFHS is about participation". Last time I checked most high schools have either if not both: "try-outs" &/or "cuts". Participation rules are for the local "rec" league, they don't "try-out" or have "cuts".

Originally Posted by Bandit

I totally agree that HS softball is about participation

So you can't believe he stated it, yet you stated it yourself. Ok. Can we say hypocrite?

Originally Posted by Bandit

Seriously...I can throw around big names out there too, but I wont. I have had communication with STRUCKHOFF as well.

First you won't, then you do? Please, enlighten us as to your "communication" with her. What did she tell you? Was your discussion centered around participation? When did you talk to her?

Originally Posted by Bandit

You guys have stated over and over again that HS softball and the Federation is about participation and not about highly skilled softball.

Please provide links to those posts where someone/anyone posted that NFHS is "not about highly skilled softball."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Bandit,

Covered NFHS Rule Changes in local association meeting tonight. Majority is still trying to figure out what these people were thinking about with this change.

On the positive side, the association nominated you as a finalist in the Last Comic Standing series. Good luck in your future endeavors.

[Bandit]

"Finally, NFHS isn't about playing games at "a high level of competition." NFHS is about participation. Renton (WA) High School hasn't won 10 games in five years, but there have been about 200 girls who have participated. There are far more Rentons out there than whatever school you claim to coach."
-bkbJones

HS softball is about participation. Participation of the highest skilled players in our schools. That is why there are cuts. It is not a free-for-all.

Thanks for the nomination to the comedy club. I am sure I will see a lot of your faces there! All of this is funny and time well wasted. Later!

[Bandit]

About the participation comments and their differences. The original comment about particiaption I believe was made by bkbjones. The comment was taken in the context that participation was all about the fun of participation. I believe in the HS format or context and with the fact that there are indeed try-outs and cuts made in most cases the game is taken a little bit more "seriously" then at the local rec/league level. If this was not the direction or context mr jones was implying I apologize for my misinterpretation. I believe this can be supported up by the differences of the words particpation and participants. One must have cause and/or purpose and the other simply represents numbers or fact. A big difference. Again an opinion of this particular author.

In respoxe to Mr SRW writing in post # 31 in this particular thread: "Please provide links to those posts where someone/anyone posted that NFHS is "not about highly skilled softball." Please refer to the comments of Mr Jones in post # 17 where he writes: " Finally, NFHS isn't about playing games at "a high level of competition." NFHS is about participation." I believe while the exact words used may not used (highly skilled vs high level) the context or implication is certainly the same.

Bottom line I believe is certainly been made and that this is a choice the players, parents and coaches are now able to make on an individual basis. And this choice is now the same for both boys and girls.

Where any humor or joking has been made in the previous comments or posts I do not know, so the comment by Irishmafia about being "a finalist in the Last Comic Standing series" is a little confusing. But this is not the first time he's has confused me or others and it probally will not be the last time. In fact I believe if any individual were to ask Mr Irishmafia about some of his comments and what some think of them. They might wish that he would keep some of them more to himself. This of course is no secret as Mr Irishmafia has made that fact known himself thru past threads. But he always makes it interesting to say the least and we can always be sure he will have an opinion. That's probally what keeps me coming back.

One last comment about the cleat topic. What will be interesting to watch is what individual HS's or state HS organizations will choose to possible ignore or change this position at the local or state level.

And finally, whewwwwww, for some clearification and information. At least 2 individuals have been responding to this interesting thread. One from the point of coaching and one from the opionion of an umpire/coach. But as an individual (that would be the umpire/coach) who has had the oppurtunity to visit and participate on some of the finest softball fileds in college softball. One of which is the University of Louisville's softball field. And also the field in which this thread has mentioned, the care and condition of these two fields are comparable beyond anyones possilble belief or comprehension. In short. No raking is needed! Pictures available upon request, right coach?

[bkbjones]

Isn't it amazing how many comedic genuises fail to recognize their genius?!?

Now, as for what I said that has so pi$$ed you off:
NFHS isn't about playing games at "a high level of competition." NFHS is about participation. Renton (WA) High School hasn't won 10 games in five years, but there have been about 200 girls who have participated. There are far more Rentons out there than whatever school you claim to coach.

My wife, who specializes in that sort of thing, points out that I need to be more clear because of the comprehension problem from which you may be suffering (based on the lack of comprehension, misspelling, taking things out of context, et cetera).

Here is an example that you should be able to understand about participation.

For many years, the state of Indiana was renown for having one classification for basketball. It will surprise you to know there was even a movie made about it. It was named "Hoosiers" and even had talking AND was in COLOR. Unbelievable!

Anyway...

Just a couple years ago, that tradition went away. Now they have multiple classifications competing in basketball playoffs competing toward multiple state championships. Why? So more high school student-athletes can participate in the experience.

What a novel concept!

Now, Mr. Nice Bkbjones is going away. At no point did I ever say anything about NFHS not being about skills. Any coach who isn't teaching their players skills is a bull$hit coach. Do you take me for a flaking moron or something?

As for being a namedropper, well, I was talked out of dropping some real names on you. Let's just say that I have met more heads of state than you have capable spelling or grammar teachers. It's been my pleasure to have visited with Mary Struckhoff on more than one occasion. I've known several members of past and present rules committees for several years. I'm proud to count Diane Kolb as a fellow umpire and, more importantly, a very best friend.

In every case, every person I have known on that committee has a passion for making not only a game so the most highly skilled players may succeed, but also making it a level playing field so that as many people participate as possible. Just as there is a place for Woodinville HS, there is a place for Franklin HS. It's my pleasure to know both coaches, the 64 and the 0. the Woodinville coach is also one of my good friends. When we're on the field we're not friends, for he coaches and I umpire. We've also comiserated about things like 64-0 games and how $hitty many members of the (in)human race can be. We've also talked about how nice it is to be able to be out there.

As for your field, I couldn't care less how it looks. You see, I'm out here pretty much on borrowed time as it is. We all are to some extent. Don't over worry about how good your field looks, and don't take any of this game or life for granted. Just being able to be vertical and being on a ball field is more than good enough for this man.

[Bandit]

mr jones, you are actually incorrect on the following statement, just for the record. "Now they have multiple classifications competing in basketball playoffs competing toward multiple state championships. Why? So more high school student-athletes can participate in the experience." The reasoning behind this move was that larger school districts had a larger source or pool of players in which to choose their team from and the little school districts were tired of getting thier a$$ 's kicked by the bigger schools. That is what made the movie so special. It was the little guy beating up on the big guy. Participation was not in question. Have a nice day.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Bandit

mr jones, you are actually incorrect on the following statement, just for the record. "Now they have multiple classifications competing in basketball playoffs competing toward multiple state championships. Why? So more high school student-athletes can participate in the experience." The reasoning behind this move was that larger school districts had a larger source or pool of players in which to choose their team from and the little school districts were tired of getting thier a$$ 's kicked by the bigger schools. That is what made the movie so special. It was the little guy beating up on the big guy. Participation was not in question. Have a nice day.

Let's see... setting up multiple classes so more schools can "make state" or "win state" is not about participation?

OK, if you say so...

[Bandit]

I didn't say it was a smart idea. I'm just saying that having lived in Indiana for 43 of my 44 years that was the reason for the change. Please remember this is the same state that has fought to agree on time zones for a considerable amount of time.

[DeRef]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Bottom line I believe is certainly been made and that this is a choice the players, parents and coaches are now able to make on an individual basis. And this choice is now the same for both boys and girls.

Individual Basis!!! What about the girl who gets spiked by the runner who has chosen to wear the metal spikes. What kind of choice does she get.

This is a dumb change because the people who are wearing the cleats are not the ones likely to get hurt. The defense is out there to fend for themselves when the runner slides with the metal spikes out front.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by DeRef

Individual Basis!!! What about the girl who gets spiked by the runner who has chosen to wear the metal spikes. What kind of choice does she get.

This is a dumb change because the people who are wearing the cleats are not the ones likely to get hurt. The defense is out there to fend for themselves when the runner slides with the metal spikes out front.

Perhaps you should talk to the Fed folks - add a rule that coaches ensure that defensive players are skilled enough to actually play their positions. Watch the coaches whine about that!

Personally, I am not convinced this is a good move - there are far too many scholastic players that are not serious players and these players are not very skilled. I suspect that there will be some injuries - for defensive players who do not know how to properly play their infield positions when players are wearing metal AND for offensive players who are wearing metal without knowing what they need to know about wearing metal. On the other hand, I am not convinced that this is a bad move - let them learn. I suspect there will be more injuries to the offensive players than the defense. But I also have zero statistics.
I know there are some injuries in the college game - where spikes are allowed and expected. There are also injuries with boys and metal spikes in their game. I guess I'll wait and see to determine what my opinion is as to whether this is a good change or not.
I suspect we will see intimidation have a bigger part in the high school softball game. That's not good, nor is it bad, but it is a change.

[Bandit]

It a choice. I betting you would choose against this. Have a nice week-end.

[IRISHMAFIA]

As I posted elsewhere, how long before a player is seen in the dugout with a file sharpening their spikes, and how soon will the other coach complain to the umpire that S/HE has to do something about it?

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

As I posted elsewhere, how long before a player is seen in the dugout with a file sharpening their spikes, and how soon will the other coach complain to the umpire that S/HE has to do something about it?

Mike,
That's part of the imtimidation I spoke of. I don't know whether that's good or bad - the actual use of "high" spike is and will properly be dealt with by ejection.
Granted, I played HS baseball, but I used to use as much intimidation as I could - it's just another tool to playing the game. I'd sit on the end of the bench, shortly before the game and do something to get attention from the other team WHILE I took off my spikes and made a show of sharpening them. I never spiked anyone, never got tossed, I ate a few pitches, but I seldom got put out on a steal or when I stretched a hit.
Another thing this may lead to is players policing their own games - much as baseball and men's fastpitch did when I played - take a cheap shot, eat a pitch or hard tag.
This rule change may well be a part of changing the "culture" of high school ball. And that may lead to more serious ball with LESS participation. Since Fed is big on participation, regardless of what some butt head sez, I suspect they have not really analyzed this change and what may happen.

[DeRef]

Originally Posted by Bandit

It a choice. I betting you would choose against this. Have a nice week-end.

So I take it that if I chose to get drunk and run over your family in my car, you will be ok with that. I mean, it was a "choice" that I made. Of course NOT...

That being said, the defense should not be put at risk because the offense choses to wear metal. Only a fool would thank that this was ok.

[Bandit]

Let's hope we dont see any drunken players on the base paths with sharpened metal spikes then....things could get ugly for a lot of people involved!