Is there a rule regarding the defensive coach...

[ren0901]

...coming out of the dugout to coach her players during a playing action? This took place during a HS girls softball supersectional game in Illinois. Unfortunately, I'm a retired HS baseball umpire and not familar w/FED softball rules. I was not at the game but here's an excerpt from the paper (yes, this made the local paper):

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But it's the game's ending that will have fans speculating for some time.

The (Sandburg) Eagles trailed 2-1 heading into the bottom of the seventh. Burns got a strikeout to open the frame, but Sandburg's number nine hitter, senior second baseman Katie Pistello, lined a 1-1 pitch to left for a single.

Senior catcher Ashley Conrad then drew a five-pitch walk to put runners at first and second. Senior center fielder Jami Duncan flew out to junior Ashley Linhart in center for the second out. Pistello tagged up and advanced to third, sliding in ahead of the throw.

At some point, (Lincoln Way) Griffin coach Aimee Lonigro came out of the dugout toward third base to apparently question the call.

While Lonigro was there, only a foot from the foul line, Conrad took off from first and went to second.

East junior third baseman Lyndsey Slawkowski threw the ball to senior shortstop Alisa Goler at second as Conrad slid in safely. In the process, Pistello decided to break for home. But an alert Goler fired the ball to junior catcher Brianna Lizen, who survived a collision with Pistello to end the game.

"Everyone was looking and paying attention and did a good job of not going crazy," Goler said. "I still don't know what the ruckus was over at third base, but luckily we were focused. That has killed us all year -- someone advancing on us and not paying attention.

"I heard (Conrad) sliding and didn't even look at her, I figured they'd be going home. I saw (Pistello) break and gunned it home. As soon as I threw it I knew she was out. It couldn't have ended any better."

Lizen was ready for the throw.

"I saw her going, I had my knee down and I knew I needed to make that tag to win the game," said Lizen, who had the ball in plenty of time to tag Pistello, who did everything she could to knock it free. "I wasn't surprised that she went with all the commotion going on. They're a good team and push hard to get the extra base."

The question was should the runners have even been allowed to move or was there a time out on the field?

Sandburg coach Jim Fabianski vehemently argued that time should have been called once Lonigro came out to the field and the play should have been dead at that point.

With the Griffins already celebrating, Fabianski directed Pistello and Conrad to go back to their respective bases.

The three umpires got together, but after a conference they ruled the game was over and East had won.

That decision didn't sit well with Fabianski or assistant coach Theresa Zambuto, who continued to follow the umpires down the left field line to plead their case.

Afterward, Lonigro pleaded her case that she wasn't out to argue the call at third.

"I was out there telling my third baseman to put the tag down," Lonigro said. "I was excited and I thought we were going to throw her out at three.

"As far as I was concerned I was out (of the dugout) before the ball was even to third base. It's something I've done all year. Many times I'm running down the baseline with the kids and all kinds of stuff. I didn't stop (Pistello) from going home."

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Going by what was reported, it doesn't seem that the defensive (Lincoln Way) coach's presence on the field affected what the offensive and defensive players did so I agree with the umpires - game over. Just wondering if there was a FED rule that might apply because the coach came out. I look forward to your insights and a link to the full article is here: http://www.starnewspapers.com/orland...076sx2.article

[mcrowder]

Unless the coach actually interfered with something, at worst you might have an ejection. Sounds like she didn't.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I believe it is up to the local Fed association, but I believe many allow the home team to set ground rules for their field. If part of that is a defensive coach in play, so be it.

Their sandbox, their rules.

[CajunNewBlue]

Defensive coach comes out of the dugout right after a sliding play at third?...maybe its just me, but I'm calling time and walking down the line to see what this idiot...sorry "coach" is doing causing verbal "interference..imho" one foot from the foul line and probably only 3 feet from a offensive player during a "still" live ball. at least a warning is issued. then she can have her "defensive" conference.
dunno, i might be wrong according to the "letter" of the rule... but having defensive coaches running around in foul territory anytime they want without "asking" for time to be called... just doesnt seem right. and im new, but i have had coach after coach ask if they could sit on a bucket here... or lean on the fence there...and i always say no. dugout please.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Defensive coach comes out of the dugout right after a sliding play at third?...maybe its just me, but I'm calling time and walking down the line to see what this idiot...sorry "coach" is doing causing verbal "interference..imho" one foot from the foul line and probably only 3 feet from a offensive player during a "still" live ball. at least a warning is issued. then she can have her "defensive" conference.
dunno, i might be wrong according to the "letter" of the rule... but having defensive coaches running around in foul territory anytime they want without "asking" for time to be called... just doesnt seem right. and im new, but i have had coach after coach ask if they could sit on a bucket here... or lean on the fence there...and i always say no. dugout please.

So, you are going to kill a play and deprive the offense of advancing because the defense's coach is on the field?

As you said, you are new. Unless the coach actually OBSTRUCTED a runner, this is nothing, but a stern discussion when all play is over. Then after the coach reminds you of your place, you can dump her. Otherwise, there is nothing to call.

The umpires were correct, lacking that the coach affected the play in any manner.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, you are going to kill a play and deprive the offense of advancing because the defense's coach is on the field?

As you said, you are new. Unless the coach actually OBSTRUCTED a runner, this is nothing, but a stern discussion when all play is over. Then after the coach reminds you of your place, you can dump her. Otherwise, there is nothing to call.

The umpires were correct, lacking that the coach affected the play in any manner.

And having a defensive coach come out almost into the offensive coach's box and being verbal in some manner.... didnt affect the play in any manner? like i said i'm new to umpiring.... but a coach being where they are NOT suppose to be affected the play in some manner.. otherwise why are there rules dictating where a coach should be at all times?
Dunno, maybe i just like to argue

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Defensive coach comes out of the dugout right after a sliding play at third?...maybe its just me, but I'm calling time and walking down the line to see what this idiot...sorry "coach" is doing causing verbal "interference..imho" one foot from the foul line and probably only 3 feet from a offensive player during a "still" live ball. at least a warning is issued. then she can have her "defensive" conference.
dunno, i might be wrong according to the "letter" of the rule... but having defensive coaches running around in foul territory anytime they want without "asking" for time to be called... just doesnt seem right. and im new, but i have had coach after coach ask if they could sit on a bucket here... or lean on the fence there...and i always say no. dugout please.

Of course it's not right ... but surely you don't want to call TIME and harm the offense! If she interferes, call it and penalize it. And yes, warn and/or eject as necessary. But don't stop play.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

And having a defensive coach come out almost into the offensive coach's box and being verbal in some manner.... didnt affect the play in any manner? like i said i'm new to umpiring.... but a coach being where they are NOT suppose to be affected the play in some manner.. otherwise why are there rules dictating where a coach should be at all times?
Dunno, maybe i just like to argue

What's your point? Yes - the coach shouldn't be there. But your solution harms the OTHER team. Don't stop the play. Penalize the coach if they somehow actually affect the play. It's doubtful that they actually affected the play --- what could they yell from right there that they couldn't yell from the dugout ... but if you DO think they affected the play, penalize it (obstruction, I suppose ... although it's probably a bit of a stretch).

[wadeintothem]

Ha!

Thats a great article.

Boy, that would be a good rule for defense.. any time something is happening.. Def coach just comes sniveling quickly out of the dugout.. blam; ball is dead play over runners stop running.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Defensive coach comes out of the dugout right after a sliding play at third?...maybe its just me, but I'm calling time and walking down the line to see what this idiot...sorry "coach" is doing causing verbal "interference..imho" one foot from the foul line and probably only 3 feet from a offensive player during a "still" live ball. at least a warning is issued. then she can have her "defensive" conference.
dunno, i might be wrong according to the "letter" of the rule... but having defensive coaches running around in foul territory anytime they want without "asking" for time to be called... just doesnt seem right. and im new, but i have had coach after coach ask if they could sit on a bucket here... or lean on the fence there...and i always say no. dugout please.

What????

OK.. offense sees a moment of confusion, tries to take advantage of it and sends their runner home.. bottom of 7 2 outs tie run @ 3 and sends that runner!! (Hey coach, might not wanna sent that runner, SS has the dang ball!!, This aint rec league). Furthermore, hes obviously taught them to kill the catcher. This is virtually a straight steal of HP with the goal of destroying the catcher.

I wish, I as an umpire, could stand there telling the 3B coach how truly stupid they are, but I'd be too busy walking down the left field line going home to post about it on official forum.

[gsf23]

East junior third baseman Lyndsey Slawkowski threw the ball to senior shortstop Alisa Goler at second as Conrad slid in safely. In the process, Pistello decided to break for home. But an alert Goler fired the ball to junior catcher Brianna Lizen, who survived a collision with Pistello to end the game.
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I'm kinda wondering about that more than the coach being out.

And as far as the defensive coach coming out during a live ball, first I would let all playing action finish, make any awards if the coach obstructed the offense in any way, then tell the coach that if he/she ever walks out onto my field again without asking for and receiving time, they will be watching the rest of the game from the parking lot.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

And having a defensive coach come out almost into the offensive coach's box and being verbal in some manner.... didnt affect the play in any manner? like i said i'm new to umpiring.... but a coach being where they are NOT suppose to be affected the play in some manner.. otherwise why are there rules dictating where a coach should be at all times?
Dunno, maybe i just like to argue

Okay, tell me what the defensive coach did to OBSTRUCT a runner.

There are a lot of times an umpire isn't where they belong, but we don't stop the game.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Boy, that would be a good rule for defense.. any time something is happening.. Def coach just comes sniveling quickly out of the dugout.. blam; ball is dead play over runners stop running.

Well, you see the point that Cajun obviously is missing.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

There are a lot of times an umpire isn't where they belong, but we don't stop the game.

Unless, of course, he needs to return to where he does belong.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Unless, of course, he needs to return to where he does belong.

Which, depending on what they say or do, is up to, and including, the parking lot.