Its about time for ASA to drop the "both feet" on rubber requirement

[wadeintothem]

You know, some times you gotta go with the flow.. and with ASA being about the sole association of significance requiring this - and ONLY for the females.. they gotta let it go.

This weekend I called it many times.. I could have called it many more. The girls are fresh out of HS ball - and they just are no longer used to it.

ASA would do well to go ahead and drop it for 08 IMO. The girls play HS ball.. its allowed.. then they play ASA .. not allowed.. then they move to NCAA.. allowed.

Thats insanity IMO. I'd like to hear some good arguments for keeping this now defunct rule for ASA.

[AtlUmpSteve]

You are starting off with a false premise. NFHS is, in fact, in the minority, not ASA; and is even considering joining the mainstream (according to a focus group study in which I am a participant). The NCAA rule as printed requires both feet; in fact, merely touching isn't sufficient, the pivot foot must start covering at least half of the pitching plate, and the stride foot must be in contact.

What alphabet soup rulesets do you know allow only one foot? Just because NFHS and some lesser (in softball) associations are willing to weaken the standard pitching rule out of fear that certain areas can't compete certainly isn't a reason.

By the same weakened argument, girls playing basketball in high school should be shooting at a lowered basket, and from a shorter foul line, because in some areas, they cannot play the game as intended college or in the WNBA.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

By the same weakened argument, girls playing basketball in high school should be shooting at a lowered basket, and from a shorter foul line, because in some areas, they cannot play the game as intended college or in the WNBA.

By the same weakened argument, then when is ASA going to allow the same pitching rules for males as for females?

[wadeintothem]

HA! What a bunch of schmucks.

Thanks.

I should have researched NCAA ruleset on my own. (I dont work NCAA ball)

This thread stems from a convo a bunch of umps were having and the alleged NCAA guys stated exactly the opposite and convinced me ASA was wrong. In fact they were stating leagues i've barely heard of (utrip (sic??) for one) and everyone switching, leaving ASA behind.

If its only NFHS, then ASA is correct.

Thanks steve.

[wadeintothem]

In fact, it started because I was calling it pretty rough.. even once with bases loaded.. this is ASA 18G. It ticks me off they got to me.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

HA! What a bunch of schmucks.

Thanks.

I should have researched NCAA ruleset on my own. (I dont work NCAA ball)

This thread stems from a convo a bunch of umps were having and the alleged NCAA guys stated exactly the opposite and convinced me ASA was wrong. In fact they were stating leagues i've barely heard of (utrip (sic??) for one) and everyone switching, leaving ASA behind.

If its only NFHS, then ASA is correct.

Thanks steve.

I try not to compare things to USSSA anymore. When I used to call U-trip 12? years ago (back when it was still United States Slo-Pitch Softball Association), it used to be very similar to ASA. The wording was different in the rules, but the effects of the rules were relatively identical with some minor exceptions. Now that they've expanded to cover just about every sport short of curling, they've also let a lot of things go in their softball rules. From all reports I've heard, it looks more like a circus act than a ball game.

In my humble opinion, if you hear someone starting to compare USSSA to ASA, take it with a grain of salt.

Sorry if this bugs any USSSA umps out there (though I haven't seen that alphabet soup in anyone's signature here as of yet), but that's just what I'm hearing both from other umps, players and coaches.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I try not to compare things to USSSA anymore. When I used to call U-trip 12? years ago (back when it was still United States Slo-Pitch Softball Association), it used to be very similar to ASA. The wording was different in the rules, but the effects of the rules were relatively identical with some minor exceptions. Now that they've expanded to cover just about every sport short of curling, they've also let a lot of things go in their softball rules. From all reports I've heard, it looks more like a circus act than a ball game.

In my humble opinion, if you hear someone starting to compare USSSA to ASA, take it with a grain of salt.

Sorry if this bugs any USSSA umps out there (though I haven't seen that alphabet soup in anyone's signature here as of yet), but that's just what I'm hearing both from other umps, players and coaches.

Well, I didnt really give a crap about those leagues.. but if NFHS and NCAA were allowing it.. and ASA allows it for their male players, I saw no reason to keep disallowing it. If NCAA doesnt allow it, then it would be lame for ASA to switch.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You know, some times you gotta go with the flow.. and with ASA being about the sole association of significance requiring this - and ONLY for the females.. they gotta let it go.

This weekend I called it many times.. I could have called it many more. The girls are fresh out of HS ball - and they just are no longer used to it.

ASA would do well to go ahead and drop it for 08 IMO. The girls play HS ball.. its allowed.. then they play ASA .. not allowed.. then they move to NCAA.. allowed.

Thats insanity IMO. I'd like to hear some good arguments for keeping this now defunct rule for ASA.

OK. Here is one. At the NFHS meeting coming up in a couple weeks in Indianapolis, one of the rule changes to be considered is both feet on the rubber.

And, insanity is far worse than this. Trust me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

From my Federation contacts, the purpose of allowing the non-pivot foot to be behind the PITCHER'S PLATE was for participation purposes. Apparently, it is easier to pitch without the two-foot restriction and as we all know, not every school has a good pitcher from the start.

[Antonella]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I'd like to hear some good arguments for keeping this ...

Maybe it's unimportant for people in the USA, but the rest of the world is playing softball on ISF ruleset bases. And ISF Rulebook requires BOTH FEET in contact with the pitcher's plate...

There is more softball all around the world than you imagine!

Ciao

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Antonella

Maybe it's unimportant for people in the USA, but the rest of the world is playing softball on ISF ruleset bases. And ISF Rulebook requires BOTH FEET in contact with the pitcher's plate...

There is more softball all around the world than you imagine!

Ciao

Well when the rest of the world stops running from the USA in softball, it goes back into the olympics, etc - I'll consider them.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

, they cannot play the game as intended college or in the WNBA.

Apparently you haven't seen the Monarchs boxscore from last nights game..

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I try not to compare things to USSSA anymore. When I used to call U-trip 12? years ago (back when it was still United States Slo-Pitch Softball Association), it used to be very similar to ASA. The wording was different in the rules, but the effects of the rules were relatively identical with some minor exceptions. Now that they've expanded to cover just about every sport short of curling, they've also let a lot of things go in their softball rules. From all reports I've heard, it looks more like a circus act than a ball game.

In my humble opinion, if you hear someone starting to compare USSSA to ASA, take it with a grain of salt.

Sorry if this bugs any USSSA umps out there (though I haven't seen that alphabet soup in anyone's signature here as of yet), but that's just what I'm hearing both from other umps, players and coaches.

I really don't know your sources, but I would venture to say that they, and you, are sadly misinformed. USSSA FP has really grown over the past half dozen years or so, and its rules are very closely in line with those of NFHS. Around here, some of the most competetive teams are playing USSSA tournaments. It resembles nothing like "a circus." Oh, and not all umpires include the groups they work in their signatures. Some just place them in their profiles.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I really don't know your sources, but I would venture to say that they, and you, are sadly misinformed. USSSA FP has really grown over the past half dozen years or so, and its rules are very closely in line with those of NFHS. Around here, some of the most competetive teams are playing USSSA tournaments. It resembles nothing like "a circus." Oh, and not all umpires include the groups they work in their signatures. Some just place them in their profiles.

Actually, the sources to which I was referring were referring to SP, and by all accounts, they're accurate. This is a FP thread, and my only reason for bringing up USSSA was that just because one rule book in particular decides to bend rules doesn't mean it's for the best.

I'll fall back to a statement I made a number of threads ago - players will rise to the level of (reasonable) expectations. Two feet on the PP does not sound unreasonable to me, and pitchers have been doing it (and doing it well) for years.

[Andy]

Here in AZ, the switching back an forth is not an issue. Most of the pitchers play far more ball under "both feet on the PP" rulesets than they do under HS rules. So most of our HS pitchers start with both feet on the PP anyway.

If we see a pitcher in HS stepping back, it's most likely she doesn't play much other than HS ball.