Delayed Asking For help.......

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

...asking for help on a proper appeal.

[NCASAUmp]

Glad I'm not the only one who cringed upon reading that!

[DaveASA/FED]

NC blue,
I understand what you are saying about the "live ball" asking for assistance like you were describing, and IMO opinion I have no issue with it as long as you ask your partner a specific question when you point to him/her, ex. point while saying "FOOT?" so s/he knows you are asking them their opinion of whether the fielder kept their foot on the base or not.

I personally like to get together with my partner, quickly, and discuss the situation. I worked with a partner the other day that when I came to him he flat out asked me "what are you asking me?" at first I was taken back, but as I thought about it, coming together and talking allowed perfect understand what I was looking for help on....lets take another situation, girl gets jammed inside as she is trying to slap hit and is hit by the ball. In that situation you could be asking your partner for several things....did she swing at it? did it hit her in the box? did you see it hit her bat?

Each ump has a different angle and view, so you don't always want to point and leave it open for the other ump to add information, coming together or asking a certain question makes it understandable what you are needing "help" on. What I mean is I might have had a perfect view of the ball hitting the batter then the bat and all I want is was she swinging cause the catcher blocked me at the last second....if I leave it open and BU says "Its a foul ball it hit the bat" now we have a bigger issue. Good communication is key, if you can do that from 20-40 feet away fine, sometimes it takes a meeting of the minds to ensure you get it right.

[Andy]

Here is another reason to keep your conversations with your partner private:

There have been times when I have been asked to get help on a call that I have no intention of changing because I had the entire play. As a game management technique, I will go to my partner in private away from the rest of the participants and say something like...."D*mn, it's hot today", or "So, whose turn to buy after the game?"

I will then turn to the coach and announce that the call stands. Let's play ball!

Before I start getting flamed, I have no problem with discussing a call with a coach and letting him know exactly why I called what I called and telling him that No, I'm not going to my partner on that one.

If I use the technique above, it's because the game has been smooth to that point and I have chosen not to interrupt that flow. The coach gets his request that I talk to my partner and we go from there.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Andy

There have been times when I have been asked to get help on a call that I have no intention of changing because I had the entire play. As a game management technique, I will go to my partner in private away from the rest of the participants and say something like...."D*mn, it's hot today", or "So, whose turn to buy after the game?"

One of my fellow umpires told me this story. He made a judgment call on his base that he absolutely knew was correct. The coach asked him to talk with his partner about it, so he motioned to the other ump to approach. They met in the middle, and my fellow umpire asked under his breath, "do you like hot dogs?" "Yeah, I like hot dogs." "They're good, aren't they?" "Yeah, they certainly are." All the coaches could see was two umpires talking to each other, nodding their heads. In the end, the call stood, and the coach went away happy.

I see no real harm in doing this (as long as you're POSITIVE no one can hear you). If it's your call, and you are 110% certain of what you saw, there's little point in asking another umpire his/her opinion, other than to soothe a coach's ruffled feathers. I'm not saying let the coaches run the game by any means, but sometimes, to keep the peace on a tight play in a hot game, appearances can mean a lot.

Just don't do this.

[IRISHMAFIA]

If you were in the proper position and were 110% sure of the call, why are you going to your partner for help? I will not hesitate going to my partner for help if there is even a remote chance that there may have been something I did not see. But I will not go just for the sake of making a coach feel warm and fuzzy all over.

However, I've seen coaches and players ask a BU inside the diamond to go for help on a tag play at 2B in a 2-umpire game. "No, Coach. I had this play from start to finish."

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If you were in the proper position and were 110% sure of the call, why are you going to your partner for help?

I had the same question.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If you were in the proper position and were 110% sure of the call, why are you going to your partner for help? I will not hesitate going to my partner for help if there is even a remote chance that there may have been something I did not see. But I will not go just for the sake of making a coach feel warm and fuzzy all over.

However, I've seen coaches and players ask a BU inside the diamond to go for help on a tag play at 2B in a 2-umpire game. "No, Coach. I had this play from start to finish."

Like I said... There's little point in doing so. All depends on how much you care if the coach's feathers are ruffled. Personally, my "give a d@mn" sign for coaches' and players' egos has been out for repair for a long time. Don't let the coach run you. If it's yours, it's yours. Make the call and stick to it. If the coach asks, and you have doubts, then ask your partner.

That's what I was trying to get at.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Dakota

What am I missing? What I am trying to say is that if BU calls BR out at 1B, but F3 pulled foot, and coach asks BU to go for help, that this is a proper appeal for Bu go PU. If PU saw the pulled foot BU would have the chance to reverse his call to safe. The conversation between BU and PU would be just between the two of them.

[mcrowder]

Tony ... a coach asking you to go for help is not an appeal at all... it's a coach asking you to go for help.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Tony ... a coach asking you to go for help is not an appeal at all... it's a coach asking you to go for help.

I was wrong in thinking that a Pulled Foot was one of the four legitimate appeals. I had
1. Missed base
2. Pulled Foot
3. Tag up
4. BOO

Don't know where I came up with Pulled Foot as an appeal. I stand corrected that this is simply asking for help.

Even more puzzling was to read "Attempting to advance to 2B after making a turn at 1B."

What is scary is that I do not recall ever seeing this, nor can I interpret what this really means.