Rundown and OBS

[DaveASA/FED]

Ok I stole this form the NFHS website. I would like to know what you all think, for FED and ASA.

Runner between 2nd and 3rd in rundown, get obstructed returning to 2nd, ball goes into outfield now two cases

1) runner gets up and runs to 3rd base
2) runner touches 2nd then attempts for 3rd

Both cases the runner is thrown out in a close play at 3rd.

What do you call??

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Ok I stole this form the NFHS website. I would like to know what you all think, for FED and ASA.

Runner between 2nd and 3rd in rundown, get obstructed returning to 2nd, ball goes into outfield now two cases

1) runner gets up and runs to 3rd base
2) runner touches 2nd then attempts for 3rd

Both cases the runner is thrown out in a close play at 3rd.

What do you call??

This is really a HTBT kind of call. It would depend on what base I felt that the runner would/could have attained had the obstruction not occurred.

[DaveASA/FED]

What I am really looking for is whether you consider the two cases differently. The conversation I was hoping for was whether the OBS is over once the runner achieves the base they would have reached had there been no OBS. So let's say she was sliding into 2nd and OBS happened, so IMO she would have gotten 2nd, now the ball is overthrown and she tries for 3rd. That is the scene the OP is talking about. So the real question is IF the runner touches 2nd (the base IMO she would have achieved had there been on OBS) has she removed her protection and is now liable to be put out at 3rd?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

What I am really looking for is whether you consider the two cases differently. The conversation I was hoping for was whether the OBS is over once the runner achieves the base they would have reached had there been no OBS. So let's say she was sliding into 2nd and OBS happened, so IMO she would have gotten 2nd, now the ball is overthrown and she tries for 3rd. That is the scene the OP is talking about. So the real question is IF the runner touches 2nd (the base IMO she would have achieved had there been on OBS) has she removed her protection and is now liable to be put out at 3rd?

I don't. We should not care what she does after the OBS call - you decide right then and there what the award will be.

And no, she has not removed her protection from being put out between the bases where she was obstructed, if she touches the base you were going to award. She's still protected between 2nd and 3rd in this case even if she touches 2nd and your award was 2nd.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

So the real question is IF the runner touches 2nd (the base IMO she would have achieved had there been on OBS) has she removed her protection and is now liable to be put out at 3rd?

No. As a general rule she cannot be put out between the two bases where the obstruction occurred. If you feel that she would have only achieved a return to second had the OBS not happened, then when she is put out, call dead ball and return her to that base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Ok I stole this form the NFHS website. I would like to know what you all think, for FED and ASA.

Runner between 2nd and 3rd in rundown, get obstructed returning to 2nd, ball goes into outfield now two cases

1) runner gets up and runs to 3rd base
2) runner touches 2nd then attempts for 3rd

Both cases the runner is thrown out in a close play at 3rd.

What do you call??

This is a no brainer for ASA, and I assume the same for Federation.

The runner was obstructed and would have reached 2B safely had the OBS not occurred. That is the award base.

Any subsequent action short of INT, missing a base or USC is irrelevant to the runner being protected between the two bases where she was obstructed.

[DaveASA/FED]

My question is when does the OBS protection stop? Once the play is over? Or once the player has reached the base they would have made had there been no OBS? I remember reading almost those exact words in the book, sorry at work and book at home I will look up later.

So if BR hits a ball to shallow center field and rounds 1st into stupid F3 I have OBS, F8 throws back to F6 so R1 (former BR) retreats to 1st base (the base she would have gotten with no OBS) then there is an overthrow to F1 and R1 takes off for 2nd, you are going to protect R1 between 1st and 2nd? If thrown out put her back on 1st?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

My question is when does the OBS protection stop? Once the play is over? Or once the player has reached the base they would have made had there been no OBS? I remember reading almost those exact words in the book, sorry at work and book at home I will look up later.

So if BR hits a ball to shallow center field and rounds 1st into stupid F3 I have OBS, F8 throws back to F6 so R1 (former BR) retreats to 1st base (the base she would have gotten with no OBS) then there is an overthrow to F1 and R1 takes off for 2nd, you are going to protect R1 between 1st and 2nd? If thrown out put her back on 1st?

For me, there's really no hard-and-fast rule when it comes to obstruction (even though the rule is fairly well explained). The obstruction is a well-defined term, and easy to identify in most cases.

However, the award is still a judgment call. On tests and forums, it's easy for someone to say one answer is the right one. But on the ballfield, each runner is different. Two runners can hit the same ball to the same spot with the same speed, yet one ends up with a single while the other stretches it into a triple.

I see where you're going with this question, and I think it's great for discussion! Duh, that's why we're here. As such, my opinion is that if she successfully tagged second and tries to go to third, she's out. If she hadn't gone back to second, popped up and went for third, I *might* give her third. Depends on how close the play was.

Thoughts, anyone?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

As such, my opinion is that if she successfully tagged second and tries to go to third, she's out. If she hadn't gone back to second, popped up and went for third, I *might* give her third. Depends on how close the play was.

Thoughts, anyone?

Then would you please change your screen name, because, speaking ASA, you are wrong on a couple different levels.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Then would you please change your screen name, because, speaking ASA, you are wrong on a couple different levels.

Rather than speak condescendingly, care to explain how? This is a forum, after all.

[Al]

[QUOTE=NCASAUmp] ... But on the ballfield, each runner is different. Two runners can hit the same ball to the same spot with the same speed, yet one ends up with a single while the other stretches it into a triple.

LOL ... The above part of your post reminds me of a story I heard on Saturday Night Live many years ago. Two white guys (Billy Crystal) and (maybe Martin Short) were playing the part of two old black ball players recalling the good ole' days when they played in the negro league. They really looked and acted the part well. The dark make-up and the "nappy hair" etc. was similar to the old Amos and Andy that some on the board may remember from way back when. Well, these two baseball players from the negro league were hysterical! They started to brag about how good they played and one said he was not only a great player but was a fast runner too! He said: "I was so fast that one time when I hit a screaming line drive up the middle it hit me in the head while sliding into second base".... Fun at the ole' ball park! .. Al

[celebur]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I see where you're going with this question, and I think it's great for discussion! Duh, that's why we're here. As such, my opinion is that if she successfully tagged second and tries to go to third, she's out. If she hadn't gone back to second, popped up and went for third, I *might* give her third. Depends on how close the play was.

Thoughts, anyone?

If she was thrown out at third, I'd only give her 2B no matter how close it was.

My reasoning is that the award must be determined at the moment of obstruction, and the subsequent overthrow and attempt to advance is irrelevant to that. But she would still be protected, and a good runner would make use of that 'freebie'.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by celebur

If she was thrown out at third, I'd only give her 2B no matter how close it was.

My reasoning is that the award must be determined at the moment of obstruction, and the subsequent overthrow and attempt to advance is irrelevant to that. But she would still be protected, and a good runner would make use of that 'freebie'.

I don't know how you could put a runner who was thrown out at third second base.
Rules Supplement #36.....(T)he runner may not be called out between the two bases where they were obstructed.

How can this be construed in any other fashion than to award the base the runner was going to after being obstructed? The runner headed back to second gets second,,and the runner going to third gets third.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

My question is when does the OBS protection stop? Once the play is over? Or once the player has reached the base they would have made had there been no OBS? I remember reading almost those exact words in the book, sorry at work and book at home I will look up later.

So if BR hits a ball to shallow center field and rounds 1st into stupid F3 I have OBS, F8 throws back to F6 so R1 (former BR) retreats to 1st base (the base she would have gotten with no OBS) then there is an overthrow to F1 and R1 takes off for 2nd, you are going to protect R1 between 1st and 2nd? If thrown out put her back on 1st?

Yes. By definition (with exceptions of INT, passing, missing a base), any obstructed runner cannot be put out between the bases where she was obstructed. The case you listed is easy - protection is not over.

A more interesting case is - R1 left early on a pop, is obstructed by SS, and judged as protected to third base by BU. Ball is caught, runner returns to first, ball thrown away (not out of play), runner touches, runs to 2nd, and is then thrown out at third base.

By rule, this runner is still protected both TO third and between 2nd and 3rd. Logic tells most of us she should not still be protected, but by rule, she is.