Game Administration Ejection

[Mountaineer]

Really strange one tonight - and maybe this is a HTBT. Two top varsity teams in the state tonight. I'm PU with two great pitchers. Game is moving without incident (other than one small problem that my partner had with the home coach) - both pitchers are throwing strikes and the score is 0-0 after 7 innings.

*sidenote* The pitcher from the home team is a senior that transferred from a smaller school this past Christmas - her parents both died in a horrible car wreck on December 23. She moved in with her grandmother and transferred to this school.

Back to the game - 8th inning. Visiting team's 1st base coach walks across the field to his box and stops at the mound and says to the pitcher - "sorry to hear about your parents this year" . . . she said "thanks" and smiled - and then it hit her as to what he said and she broke down crying. Now I didn't see or hear anything - I was getting a sub from the visitors. I suddenly hear yelling from the home coaches and they are running out to the mound. My partner comes in and tells me what he was "told" was said to the pitcher. I talk to both coaches briefly and tell the home team to go back to their dugout and get the team settled down - by now several of the players are crying and the crowd is screaming! The visitors 1st base coach tells me he screwed up and honestly didn't mean to upset her that it was a stupid mistake. (I honestly believe him - he's known the girl through ASA for a number of years and I can't believe he'd do that on purpose.) The home team wants him ejected - which I don't think I can do since I didn't hear anything and I'm not sure he did anything worthy of an ejection - an a$$-kicking? maybe. I look up and see the AD coming across the field. I wave and get his attention and asked if I could help him - he identified himself as the AD and wanted to know what was going on. I explained the situation to him and he asked if I was ejecting the coach. I explained to him why I wasn't and then he went off on me! Calling me (and my partner) stupid and idiots. He was using quite a flowery vocabulary in describing what he thought of us and what he thought of the coach's actions. When it got personal was when I told him he needed to get off of my field. He said he was the AD and had every right to be on the field. I explained to him that a) he was not one of the coaches of the team; b) he was not dressed in proper attire for a NFHS contest; and c) if I told him to leave the field that my best advice for him would be to hurry. I might add that I never raised my voice and no one other than him heard one word that I said - although everyone heard what he said. On his way off the field, he stopped by the visitor's dugout and gave them some parting shots - and then he stopped at the gate and said some things to the spectators gathered there and then he was gone.

In the 8th inning the pitcher was obviously pi$$ed. She had been throwing BB's previously but came out now with LASER beams! I don't think they could have hit her with a 4X8 sheet of plywood! She threw about 11 pitches in the 8th and struck out the side. In the bottom of the inning with two out a girl hit a 2-run walk-off homer to win the game for the home team.

As my partner and I walked off the field, the AD met us just inside the gate and started yelling at us from about 60 feet. Calling us stupid and as I got to him he yelled "You've got your last check ever from Riverside - in any sport. (Honestly, my first thought was YIPEE! No more of their girls' basketball games! - but I didn't say that.) I simply looked at him and told him "Don't you dare threaten me!" He then started another tirade filled with colorful words telling us how stupid we were for not ejecting the coach in question. I told him that that was enough and that if he continued, he would be asked to leave. He said "I live right down the road - I can just walk home." Again I stayed calm (I wanted to say start walking - but didn't) and said "Coach, if you want to talk, come over to our cars and we can discuss this away from the crowd in a civilized manner." He responded - "I don't want to discuss anything with you two idiots!" It was at this point that I said, "OK coach - you're done, I need for you to go home." (And gave a very slight ejection "point".) He left, but did yell a few things at us as he left the facility.

There's no excuse for a coach saying the very hurtful things he said WHEN he said them. It was certainly not using his brain very well and he admitted that over and over. I informed him that I would be writing a "special report" to the WVSSAC and he said he understood and would not argue with any punishment they would give him. Again, I'm not convinced he did it with intentions of messing the pitcher up - of course the home team believes he did and I would too if I were in their shoes. However, for an AD to act in such an unprofessional manner is absolutely ridiculous! I have already called our state interpreter (who is also my college supervisor) and explained the situation to her and she thinks we handled it properly. I honestly don't think I said anything out of line or inappropriate to the AD as I made an asserted effort to stay calm. Of course I have replayed the situation over and over already - and pretty much come to the same conclusion - the AD has to go home.

Based on the details I've given - what would you have done differently? Have you ever tossed game administration before? Give me your thoughts.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Really strange one tonight - and maybe this is a HTBT. Two top varsity teams in the state tonight. I'm PU with two great pitchers. Game is moving without incident (other than one small problem that my partner had with the home coach) - both pitchers are throwing strikes and the score is 0-0 after 7 innings.

*sidenote* The pitcher from the home team is a senior that transferred from a smaller school this past Christmas - her parents both died in a horrible car wreck on December 23. She moved in with her grandmother and transferred to this school.

Back to the game - 8th inning. Visiting team's 1st base coach walks across the field to his box and stops at the mound and says to the pitcher - "sorry to hear about your parents this year" . . . she said "thanks" and smiled - and then it hit her as to what he said and she broke down crying. Now I didn't see or hear anything - I was getting a sub from the visitors. I suddenly hear yelling from the home coaches and they are running out to the mound. My partner comes in and tells me what he was "told" was said to the pitcher. I talk to both coaches briefly and tell the home team to go back to their dugout and get the team settled down - by now several of the players are crying and the crowd is screaming! The visitors 1st base coach tells me he screwed up and honestly didn't mean to upset her that it was a stupid mistake. (I honestly believe him - he's known the girl through ASA for a number of years and I can't believe he'd do that on purpose.) The home team wants him ejected - which I don't think I can do since I didn't hear anything and I'm not sure he did anything worthy of an ejection - an a$$-kicking? maybe. I look up and see the AD coming across the field. I wave and get his attention and asked if I could help him - he identified himself as the AD and wanted to know what was going on. I explained the situation to him and he asked if I was ejecting the coach. I explained to him why I wasn't and then he went off on me! Calling me (and my partner) stupid and idiots. He was using quite a flowery vocabulary in describing what he thought of us and what he thought of the coach's actions. When it got personal was when I told him he needed to get off of my field. He said he was the AD and had every right to be on the field. I explained to him that a) he was not one of the coaches of the team; b) he was not dressed in proper attire for a NFHS contest; and c) if I told him to leave the field that my best advice for him would be to hurry. I might add that I never raised my voice and no one other than him heard one word that I said - although everyone heard what he said. On his way off the field, he stopped by the visitor's dugout and gave them some parting shots - and then he stopped at the gate and said some things to the spectators gathered there and then he was gone.

In the 8th inning the pitcher was obviously pi$$ed. She had been throwing BB's previously but came out now with LASER beams! I don't think they could have hit her with a 4X8 sheet of plywood! She threw about 11 pitches in the 8th and struck out the side. In the bottom of the inning with two out a girl hit a 2-run walk-off homer to win the game for the home team.

As my partner and I walked off the field, the AD met us just inside the gate and started yelling at us from about 60 feet. Calling us stupid and as I got to him he yelled "You've got your last check ever from Riverside - in any sport. (Honestly, my first thought was YIPEE! No more of their girls' basketball games! - but I didn't say that.) I simply looked at him and told him "Don't you dare threaten me!" He then started another tirade filled with colorful words telling us how stupid we were for not ejecting the coach in question. I told him that that was enough and that if he continued, he would be asked to leave. He said "I live right down the road - I can just walk home." Again I stayed calm (I wanted to say start walking - but didn't) and said "Coach, if you want to talk, come over to our cars and we can discuss this away from the crowd in a civilized manner." He responded - "I don't want to discuss anything with you two idiots!" It was at this point that I said, "OK coach - you're done, I need for you to go home." (And gave a very slight ejection "point".) He left, but did yell a few things at us as he left the facility.

There's no excuse for a coach saying the very hurtful things he said WHEN he said them. It was certainly not using his brain very well and he admitted that over and over. I informed him that I would be writing a "special report" to the WVSSAC and he said he understood and would not argue with any punishment they would give him. Again, I'm not convinced he did it with intentions of messing the pitcher up - of course the home team believes he did and I would too if I were in their shoes. However, for an AD to act in such an unprofessional manner is absolutely ridiculous! I have already called our state interpreter (who is also my college supervisor) and explained the situation to her and she thinks we handled it properly. I honestly don't think I said anything out of line or inappropriate to the AD as I made an asserted effort to stay calm. Of course I have replayed the situation over and over already - and pretty much come to the same conclusion - the AD has to go home.

Based on the details I've given - what would you have done differently? Have you ever tossed game administration before? Give me your thoughts.

Definitely follow up with a well written Incident Report and turn it in.

That was outrageous of the AD, inexcusable in all ball, but especially HS ball.

I wasnt there of course and dont know the dynamics; but knowing most girls softball, it was stupid of the coach, but not malicious. I wouldn't want to accept anyone would be that malicious to a softball player unless I saw it and it was clear.

You handled a crappy situation very well IMO.

[bkbjones]

Holy Sheep is right.

Had a similar ejection in a baseball game years ago. In fact, the stud pitcher may still be in the bigs (last name Fikac, pronounced "Fee-cosh.")

His mom was the superintendent of schools at River Road ISD, on the northside of Amarillo. Her baby was the school's stud pitcher. Mom got upset over a little something, started really flaming.

I call on the site administrator and ask him to handle the situation immediately. He says, "I don't know what to do, she is my boss."

I calmly but firmly explained that either she went or we all went and her son would be getting the "L" in a 7-0 loss (didn't use those exact words, but they don't call me Mr. Sarcasm fer nothin).

Of course, I really didn't want to forfeit...so I took the very liberal approach of tossing both of them. Not a course I recommend, but I still have her letter of apology.

[azbigdawg]

The coach who made the comments should get some type of reprimand..... really stupid of him...but NO ejection


The A/D needs some type of punishment........can he not use you at that school anymore?

All of our assignments here (Arizona) go through one office. A comment by him of that nature is likely to result in you getting SEVERAL more of their games the rest of the season.

[umpharp]

Wow What a night

The coach from the visiting team was stupid, but unless he said what he said in an attempt to throw the pitcher off of her game, then you have nothing.

The AD on the other hand should be dealt with.
I would write the incendent report, but I would also call the State staff and demand a meeting with a representive from the staff and the AD. I would also call the school principal and the Board of Education members from that school. I would request that the board remove him from his position. The chances of that happening are very slim ,but you would get your point across.

If he threatened you in any way with his comments, I would also file a police report. There was no need for the AD to go off like that and he and the school need to know that as officials we do not need to put up with actions like that.

[Mountaineer]

If I never go back it's ok - I end up with quite a few basketball games there and both of their teams are not very good (the girls are last in the conference every year). While the softball team is very good - I'd just work somewhere else so it's not like it will bother me financially - so if I get scratched, I get scratched. I do think I'm scheduled there again in a week or so - my opinion is if he doesn't want me to be there that's fine - buy me out of the game.

I am going to write up a report on the incident today for both schools. I tend to agree with you guys here that the coach had a mental lapse in judgement - the AD was simply out of control. It was funny when I told him he was on MY field though! As someone who is usually a big smarta$$ - I'm quite proud of myself for remaining in control the way I did - LOL. I wouldn't wish last night on anyone - but I do hope all of you get a "game" like I had. It was a sight to behold and I am glad I was there for that part.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Let's see....

It was stated that the coach and girl were acquainted through travel ball, so I would suppose that offering his condolences were not out of line. His timing may have been, but we really don't know what his intentions were. For as much as we know, the girl could have seen a friend of her parents in the stands and had the same breakdown as this is a fragile time for anyone who suffers a tragic loss, especially that of a child's parents.

If the coach wanted to leave, that's his prerogative, but I wouldn't eject or even suggest such action. I simply would have suspended the game until the pitcher's coach was able to get his team's emotions collected and ready to resume the game.

As for the AD, site administrator or not, he had no need to be on the field and I would have dumped him if the coach could not get him to leave. If the AD persisted, the game is over and I would let the adminstrative authority determine where to go from that point.

A nice letter to the sanctioning body would be sent the NEXT day with a CC to the NFHS, the school board, every umpire I knew and maybe a clean blind CC to the media.

But, then again, isn't this the same organization which allowed a basketball delinquent masquerading as a prep HS star play a big TV game after contacting an official?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Let's see....

It was stated that the coach and girl were acquainted through travel ball, so I would suppose that offering his condolences were not out of line. His timing may have been, but we really don't know what his intentions were. For as much as we know, the girl could have seen a friend of her parents in the stands and had the same breakdown as this is a fragile time for anyone who suffers a tragic loss, especially that of a child's parents.

If the coach wanted to leave, that's his prerogative, but I wouldn't eject or even suggest such action. I simply would have suspended the game until the pitcher's coach was able to get his team's emotions collected and ready to resume the game.

As for the AD, site administrator or not, he had no need to be on the field and I would have dumped him if the coach could not get him to leave. If the AD persisted, the game is over and I would let the adminstrative authority determine where to go from that point.

A nice letter to the sanctioning body would be sent the NEXT day with a CC to the NFHS, the school board, every umpire I knew and maybe a clean blind CC to the media.

But, then again, isn't this the same organization which allowed a basketball delinquent masquerading as a prep HS star play a big TV game after contacting an official?

Yes, Mike - same organization. This will be interesting to see what comes out of it all. Huntington is actually the visitors in this scenario! I did indeed write up a special report for the WVSSAC today. I have to send them one for any incident like this. It also goes to the principal of the offending school. In a very rare occurance, I sent the same report to two different schools.

As for the coach's intentions - you are right. We really can't know what they were. We can surmise . . . and may get it wrong. This morning, I talked to a college coach who was at the game and he felt, due to the timing (he hadn't said anything to her for 7 previous innings) that he did it with a specific purpose in mind. Of course everyone from Riverside thought that - and I have difficulty disagreeing with that logic. I still go back to the fact that I didn't hear a thing - therefore, I cannot eject him for something I didn't hear him say.

I heard today that this girl has already signed with NC State to pitch next year. She was easily throwing in the mid 60's last night - mayber harder after they pi$$ed her off!

[Mountaineer]

The AD called our board secretary today and asked him to remove us from the games at their school for the remainder of the year. He said that he would not approve a check for either of us ever again so if we showed up it would be without being paid. What a crybaby! He also told our secretary that we called a "great game" and had no problem with any calls we made EXCEPT the way we handled this situation. We talked about it in a local meeting today and every person in the meeting agreed that it was not a reason for ejection. I'm stubborn enough to keep the game . . . am I being stupid? I'm also calling the WVSSAC and discussing it with them tomorrow - they could make them honor the game. I'll let you know.

[Stat-Man]

I'd have a hard time selling an ejection of the base coach. Since Mountaineer didn't hear the comment, that makes it even harder. Was the timing of it bad? Yes (Personally, I think he could have waited until the post-game handshakes to offer his condolences). But unless someone hears it and judges it as unsporting, it's going to be difficult to penalize it.

As for the AD, he needs an attitude adjustment. That kind of attitude and behavior in interscholastic sports is a turn-off to me. [soapbox] It's supposed to be for the kids to play ball, not for adults ot be the center of attention [/soapbox].

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

The AD called our board secretary today and asked him to remove us from the games at their school for the remainder of the year. He said that he would not approve a check for either of us ever again so if we showed up it would be without being paid. What a crybaby! He also told our secretary that we called a "great game" and had no problem with any calls we made EXCEPT the way we handled this situation. We talked about it in a local meeting today and every person in the meeting agreed that it was not a reason for ejection. I'm stubborn enough to keep the game . . . am I being stupid? I'm also calling the WVSSAC and discussing it with them tomorrow - they could make them honor the game. I'll let you know.

Unreal........ no AD should EVER have that power...... you need a stronger statewide association.....

[AtlUmpSteve]

Does your contract give him the right to red-line? If so, does the contract not require him to do so in writing? As the booking secretary here, I would tell him that no other umpires are available that day. Personally, I would keep the assignment on principle, without regard to the threat of no pay; and send a copy of the check request, or whatever document is used in your state, to the school principal, the board of education, and the state association if/when he fails to pay it. If no such formal document exists, I would bring and tender an invoice for services rendered, and keep copies. Would probably also consider taking the school to small claims court, and might even try to file a mechanic's lien against the school property.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Does your contract give him the right to red-line? If so, does the contract not require him to do so in writing? As the booking secretary here, I would tell him that no other umpires are available that day. Personally, I would keep the assignment on principle, without regard to the threat of no pay; and send a copy of the check request, or whatever document is used in your state, to the school principal, the board of education, and the state association if/when he fails to pay it. If no such formal document exists, I would bring and tender an invoice for services rendered, and keep copies. Would probably also consider taking the school to small claims court, and might even try to file a mechanic's lien against the school property.

Steve is right on (IMHO).

Failing all those things, any way the association could somehow boycott the school? They DO require officials...

[Skahtboi]

The advice that Steve gave is good advice. It many areas, the acceptance of a check request invoice, without stating any amendments, constitutes a contract between the umpire and the school.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

If I never go back it's ok.

I think if you never go back, then this AD will go on thinking his behavior was not only appropriate but supported. He should be reprimanded and punished. I think I'd have handled this very similarly to the way you did. You don't say exactly where he is, but if he was ON the field during the early exchange, I think it's pretty likely I'd have officially ejected him right then and there. AD's have no more authority during a game than Joe Generic Fan.