NCAA Umps.....

[Chess Ref]

Our local HS ASSOC has switched a mechanic and I need some help.

We are now staying out on hits to LF. If the ball gets by the left fielder do I need to buttonhook in at this point or do I stay out ?

Also when would I come in if the batter-runner goes for a triple or do I stay out all the way to 3rd ?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Our local HS ASSOC has switched a mechanic and I need some help.

We are now staying out on hits to LF. If the ball gets by the left fielder do I need to buttonhook in at this point or do I stay out ?

Also when would I come in if the batter-runner goes for a triple or do I stay out all the way to 3rd ?

As an NCAA mechanic, the staying outside theory is really designed for the three umpire system. In that case, since U3 is coming in to 2nd, and PU is trailing, there is no benefit to coming inside.

In two man, staying outside really only should be used on the clean single. If F7 bobbles, and there is to be a play at 2nd, stay outside and work parallel to the baseline. If they err on that play, PU should pick you up at 3rd. If the ball gets by F7 cleanly, you should cut inside first chance you get. If that is in front of the BR, great; if you allow her to pass you then cut in, you still have a better angle to get to 3rd. In no case should BU stay outside and rim, like on a stolen base, to 3rd, by choice.

[Steve M]

While I agree with this mechanic and the legs certainly appreciate it, I am not in favor of a local high school association making their own mechanics. Maybe it's jut my area, but for scholastic ball, I work with folks from several different chapters - and that number is down this year as my chapter merged into another. Using standard high school mechanics when working high school games means that I can work with folks from other chapters without mechanics issues. Let me repeat that - USING STANDARD HIGH SCHOOL MECHANICS WHEN WORKING HIGH SCHOOL GAMES MEANS THAT I CAN WORK WITH FOLKS FROM OTHER CHAPTERS WITHOUT HAVING MECHANICS ISSUES. Now that I've made a couple of editorial comments, let me address your question.

When the ball gets past F7, you need to get inside. You are going to be well ahead of the runner, as even the slowest folks will be able to take 3-5 strides while the B-R gets to 1B. You are not going to buttonhook, as there is zero likelyhood that B-R is coming back to 1B since the batted ball has gotten past F7. But you do need to get inside. Should you mistakenly stay outside all the way to 3B, you are going to have 2 problems. 1-You are taking a much longer path to the calling position that you need to get to. 2-You are going to be in the way of the throw. Just in case you're not aware of this - a SOFTBALL is not soft.

Addition - Since Atlanta Steve was posting his msg at the same time I was keying mine in, let me second his comments in addition to mine.

[Chess Ref]

I agree that HS should use HS mechanics but it is a when in Rome deal. A major influence is that alot of our top dogs do college....so I'm thinking that might have something to do with it......

Thanks for the info. I was doing a scrimmage and realized I wasn't positive where to move on F7 bobbles. When it happened I knew I didn't want to rim all the way around to 3rd. The info you guys supplied validated what I thought should be happening.....

[IRISHMAFIA]

I've worked this mechanic at a tournament UIC's request.

I found it to be relatively useless for umpiring purposes. Yes, it saves a few steps for the BU. However, it is available only in extremely limited situations and, IMO, does not place the umpire in a great position for any possible call.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I've worked this mechanic at a tournament UIC's request.

I found it to be relatively useless for umpiring purposes. Yes, it saves a few steps for the BU. However, it is available only in extremely limited situations and, IMO, does not place the umpire in a great position for any possible call.

The main reason given seems to be to keep the umpire out of the way of any throws coming from LF. Not saying I agree just saying what I was told....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

The main reason given seems to be to keep the umpire out of the way of any throws coming from LF. Not saying I agree just saying what I was told....

From LF to where? If the umpire goes inside as prescribed with the inside/outside theory, the only throw in which the umpire could remotely be in the way is to 1B.

How often do you see a throw to 1B from LF other then the extremely rare attempted live-ball appeal on a base left too early?

If the concern is a relay throw, you either need more intelligent umpires or keep them on the outfield grass the entire game.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As an NCAA mechanic, the staying outside theory is really designed for the three umpire system. In that case, since U3 is coming in to 2nd, and PU is trailing, there is no benefit to coming inside.

In two man, staying outside really only should be used on the clean single. If F7 bobbles, and there is to be a play at 2nd, stay outside and work parallel to the baseline. If they err on that play, PU should pick you up at 3rd. If the ball gets by F7 cleanly, you should cut inside first chance you get. If that is in front of the BR, great; if you allow her to pass you then cut in, you still have a better angle to get to 3rd. In no case should BU stay outside and rim, like on a stolen base, to 3rd, by choice.

Steve,

In this situation, with a fly ball to LF and 3 umpire mechanics, shouldn't U3 go out on the fly ball and U1 come inside?

[AtlUmpSteve]

The topic post was on hits to left field. The issue is what mechanics system to follow on clean and clear base hits, with no one and no reason to chase. You are either changing the issue, or misunderstanding the original post.

In answer to your post, NCAA does not chase on a "can of corn"; we chase only if there is a possible trap or catch issue. When that happens, we do revert to standard two man, although the "working outside" theory is still approved for the two man, following the issues I mentioned.

THIS IS NOT AN APPROVED MECHANIC IN ASA OR NFHS. But, it may well come into play on a long, hot day. It isn't intended to put BU or U1 in a better position; it is intended only to save steps and energy on a "nothing" play. As Mike has properly noted, it has potential to bite you.

[SergioJ]

Originally Posted by Steve M

You are not going to buttonhook, as there is zero likelyhood that B-R is coming back to 1B since the batted ball has gotten past F7. But you do need to get inside.

Are you sure you don't buttonhook when coming inside? I thought the reason for the buttonhook was to pick up the BR as she is coming to 1B (since the PU is going to be looking at the ball to the outfield). Just asking.

Serg

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by SergioJ

Are you sure you don't buttonhook when coming inside? I thought the reason for the buttonhook was to pick up the BR as she is coming to 1B (since the PU is going to be looking at the ball to the outfield). Just asking.

Serg

Serg,
If I "know" that B-R is not stopping at 1B, I am watching B-R touch 1B over my right shoulder as I am moving toward 2B. At the touch of 1B, I will be about 3 strides toward 2B. This is only going to be when the ball gets past the outfielder. If the ball does not get past the outfielder or the B-R shows that she is particularly slow, I am going to buttonhook.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If the concern is a relay throw, you either need more intelligent umpires or keep them on the outfield grass the entire game.

So i went back to a couple of the powers that be and the reason is ...drum roll please........some we don't get hit on throws from LF. Another thing mentioned was the inability of the umps to keep the ball, batter-runner, and base in full view.

Not sayin I agree just sayin.......

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

So i went back to a couple of the powers that be and the reason is ...drum roll please........some we don't get hit on throws from LF. Another thing mentioned was the inability of the umps to keep the ball, batter-runner, and base in full view.

Not sayin I agree just sayin.......

Ridiculous. If that's the case, the BU should move into foul territory

How would they expect the BU to accomplish this if the ball isn't to LF?