Saw something on TV that Made Me Think!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

I have listened to what you have said and I don't agree with you.

You keep insisting there is no need for any communication with the umpire, yet you refuse to address any of the situations where communication is required.

No one here said communication is always required, but as near as I can tell, you are the only one who keeps insisting that communication is never required, only intent.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You keep insisting there is no need for any communication with the umpire, yet you refuse to address any of the situations where communication is required.

No one here said communication is always required, but as near as I can tell, you are the only one who keeps insisting that communication is never required, only intent.

I have heard this adage at most of the umpire clinics I have attended: "NEVER guess an out!" If I don't know what they want, I don't want to guess.

While I agree that I can 'understand' what a fielder is attempting to communicate without speaking, I may consider asking a clarifying question (if there is time, IF I believe that an appeal is taking place, and if they players are generally younger than 16U - I expect more from older players)in order to understand completely what the fielder is trying to communicate.

If I don't know that the fielder is trying to communicate an appeal to me, I don't have a call. They are going to have to 'sell' to me that they want something. This will mean vocalization.

Maybe right. Maybe wrong. But it is what I'm doing now. I'm always open to change if there is a better mousetrap.

[blu_bawls]

Body language is communication and if I read it (and not guess it) I am calling the out.

Dakota...again you are the one to lose focus. In this situation as described at the beginning of the thread it was asked if an appeal could be made by intentionally stepping on the plate without verbally communicating with the umpire.

My answer is yes.

If i see the baserunner miss the plate and I see the catcher re-act to that fact also and he either tags the runner of intentionally steps on the plate...an out will be called.

[Steve M]

Actually BluBawls, we may well all be saying the same thing. You are just not saying it clearly enough.

The original question was
"Any time a runner misses a base, can they just step on the base for an out (live ball appeal)?"

Dakota, and several others of us, replied with a clarification to the effect of
"Yes, they can, so long as they somehow let the umpire know it is an appeal for the missed base. ASA does not recognize "accidental" live ball appeals."

There must be some indication that stepping on the base was intentional and that the intent was to appeal a missed base. Without both of those, neither ASA nor Fed - or anyone else that I am aware of - recognized this as an appeal.

Based on your last comment/post/whatever
"If i see the baserunner miss the plate and I see the catcher re-act to that fact also and he either tags the runner of intentionally steps on the plate...an out will be called."
We're all in agreement.

What you said earlier seemed to show that you were recognizing that just stepping on the plate was acceptable - regardless of whether the umpire knew why the fielder was stepping on the plate. And a number of folks here read it that way - so, the clarification is needed that the fielder's intent must be somehow shown.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

Dakota...again you are the one to lose focus. In this situation as described at the beginning of the thread it was asked if an appeal could be made by intentionally stepping on the plate without verbally communicating with the umpire.

Ummm, no that was not the OP's question. Here is the OP's question:

Any time a runner misses a base, can they just step on the base for an out (live ball appeal)?

Notice the difference between what was actually asked and your re-phrasing of it?

I agree the answer to your question is "yes." And, as I said in my original reply, the answer to the Op's question is

Yes, they can, so long as they somehow let the umpire know it is an appeal for the missed base.

Note "somehow let the umpire know"?

Your original answer was

If the catcher stepped on the base intentionally and not just walking over it, it's an out. They wouldn't have to say "They missed the base" before doing it.

I agree with the second sentence of that answer, but not the first. As I said several times already, the defender can intentionally step on the base for a purpose other than an appeal. The defender needs to somehow (verbal, or as you say, body language, or situation) communicate this is an appeal.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

That is a really stupid question that I am not even going to consider responding to.

Stupid? What does that say about the statement you made?

Remember when you mother told you "one gets what one deserves"? Well, there you go. And, BTW, you did respond.