You Gotta Love It

[Hoosier_Dave]

Last nite. Post season tournament. 12U-Instructional. League broke the 12U-I into 4 brackets. I got the D bracket--teams that haven't won a game. First game was a barn-burner. 26-25 final score. 2 overtime innings. 3 1/2 hours game time. We had to switch fields in the middle of the game because of darkness. Took me 5 minutes to explain the international tie breaker rule to one of the coaches. A girl missed a pop fly with 2 outs which allowed the winning run to score in bottom half of inning, or I think we'd still be playing.

Round 2 is tonite. I'm packing a lunch this time.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

Took me 5 minutes to explain the international tie breaker rule to one of the coaches.

Why? That's pretty easy to explain...

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by SRW

Why? That's pretty easy to explain...

Yes it is - but I think you overlooked the key word: COACHES.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Dave,

If you are going to be an umpire, you need to remember there is no "overtime" in softball.

[Dakota]

I umpired a quarter final game in a state FP tournament Sunday. One team had an outstanding pitcher and mediocre hitting. The other team had a very good pitcher and good hitting.

Regulation ended with the score tied 1-1. It took 4 extra innings (ITB) for one of these teams to put another run across.

I actually had one case where the runner placed on 2nd base was NOT the last out! I'm fairly confident there are now at least 2 scorekeepers and 2 coaches who actually understand the rule! (At least until they have the umpire who, a few weeks ago, made both of these teams go to tie-breaker with a runner on 2nd and one out!)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

Last nite. Post season tournament. 12U-Instructional. League broke the 12U-I into 4 brackets. I got the D bracket--teams that haven't won a game. First game was a barn-burner. 26-25 final score. 2 overtime innings. 3 1/2 hours game time. We had to switch fields in the middle of the game because of darkness. Took me 5 minutes to explain the international tie breaker rule to one of the coaches. A girl missed a pop fly with 2 outs which allowed the winning run to score in bottom half of inning, or I think we'd still be playing.

Round 2 is tonite. I'm packing a lunch this time.

I think this says Instructional, or is it Institutional or some other typo?

Tom, Please don't tell them "last out". It's hard enough to explain who the ITB runner is when the last out is made by a lead runner.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Tom, Please don't tell them "last out". It's hard enough to explain who the ITB runner is when the last out is made by a lead runner.

I didn't. I'd ask the scorekeeper who was first up, and then move up one on the batting order and tell them #22 (or whoever) is on 2nd. They'd invariably say, "yes, she was the last out." So, I had a teachable moment when that was NOT true!

[CecilOne]

I posted this three years ago. No response then, don't expect one now.

"I've been trying to figure out if we should stop criticizing the coaches and think about the league and tournament committees, whoever selects or accepts the coaches and should provide some training. Maybe even parents."

[baldgriff]

For sake of clarification please give me the current International Extra Innings rule. We are having a bit of a debate over this lately.

Thanks

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

For sake of clarification please give me the current International Extra Innings rule. We are having a bit of a debate over this lately.

Thanks

The runner at second should be "the player who is scheduled to bat last in that respective half inning", i.e. if B6 is leading off, then B5 is put at 2B.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

For sake of clarification please give me the current International Extra Innings rule. We are having a bit of a debate over this lately.

Thanks

With all due respect, what is there to debate?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

With all due respect, what is there to debate?

Some rules say "bat ninth" instead of "bat last" and some say the dreaded "last out". Some tournament rules confuse the situation with some semantic variation and time limit application, etc. Some people don't know whether it is actually a rule and some States have nonsense like waiting until the 10th inning.

But, even with that, what the debate is about is a mystery.

[baldgriff]

We have always played it that there would only be 2 outs in the inning essentially starting with 1 out also. A TD is stating that there are no outs to start the inning.

Personally I dont care one way or the other, just curious.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

We have always played it that there would only be 2 outs in the inning essentially starting with 1 out also. A TD is stating that there are no outs to start the inning.

Personally I dont care one way or the other, just curious.

You may have played it that way; but it isn't the rule, either in international play (ISF) where it was first adopted, ASA, NFHS, or NCAA.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

We have always played it that there would only be 2 outs in the inning essentially starting with 1 out also. A TD is stating that there are no outs to start the inning.

Personally I dont care one way or the other, just curious.

What is the purpose of the Tiebreaker Rule? (Hint: it is in the name.)

How is that purpose served by starting the inning with 1 out?

The TD was correct. The "start with 1 out" is nonsense in every sense of the word.

BTW, speaking ASA, it is a real rule. 5-11.

BTW#2, speaking ASA again, the title of the rule is "TIE-BREAKER RULE" (no "International"). Maybe ASA inherited the rule from ISF, I dunno.