Dealing with 10U Coaches

[wadeintothem]

Any UIC's out there with any tips on dealing with the 10U teams.

9/10 problems come out of the 10U teams in my experience.

1) Thats the training ground for new and usually younger teenaged umpires
2) Thats the training ground for coaches who in most cases probably last touched a ball 20 years ago in little league and think the way to coach is to scream at the umpire.
3) The very few and simple rules differences seems to throw everyone, including new umpires for such a loop that a monster is created and the most creative rules are suddenly invented minute by minute for "10U".

Many many umps refuse 10U.. and the reason cited most - the coaches. Of the ones that do take it, they usually end up hating it.

One problem is the 1 man system.. this year we were authorized two man for the first few games.. which made it a little better .. but the stories rolled in as the season went on..

Contracts are used, the coaches (and parents) are still abusive.
We offered the coaches to attend the rules clinic.. well only one showed up, and he was a 14U travel ball coach who is pretty good at the rules already.

The only thing i could think of by the end of the year was me taking the 10U games and holding an ejection fest every time they ran their yap.. but thats not good either..

Any good creative solutions that could be implemented before/ at the begining of season to perhaps lesson of this impact these new coaches have on the new begining umpires.

Or maybe its only are area that has trouble with the 10Uers

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Any UIC's out there with any tips on dealing with the 10U teams.

9/10 problems come out of the 10U teams in my experience.

1) Thats the training ground for new and usually younger teenaged umpires
2) Thats the training ground for coaches who in most cases probably last touched a ball 20 years ago in little league and think the way to coach is to scream at the umpire.
3) The very few and simple rules differences seems to throw everyone, including new umpires for such a loop that a monster is created and the most creative rules are suddenly invented minute by minute for "10U".

Many many umps refuse 10U.. and the reason cited most - the coaches. Of the ones that do take it, they usually end up hating it.

One problem is the 1 man system.. this year we were authorized two man for the first few games.. which made it a little better .. but the stories rolled in as the season went on..

Contracts are used, the coaches (and parents) are still abusive.
We offered the coaches to attend the rules clinic.. well only one showed up, and he was a 14U travel ball coach who is pretty good at the rules already.

The only thing i could think of by the end of the year was me taking the 10U games and holding an ejection fest every time they ran their yap.. but thats not good either..

Any good creative solutions that could be implemented before/ at the begining of season to perhaps lesson of this impact these new coaches have on the new begining umpires.

Or maybe its only are area that has trouble with the 10Uers

Make it mandatory for ALL managers/coaches to attend the rules clinic, or they are not permitted to manage/coach.

Bob

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Any UIC's out there with any tips on dealing with the 10U teams.

9/10 problems come out of the 10U teams in my experience.

1) Thats the training ground for new and usually younger teenaged umpires
2) Thats the training ground for coaches who in most cases probably last touched a ball 20 years ago in little league and think the way to coach is to scream at the umpire.
3) The very few and simple rules differences seems to throw everyone, including new umpires for such a loop that a monster is created and the most creative rules are suddenly invented minute by minute for "10U".

Many many umps refuse 10U.. and the reason cited most - the coaches. Of the ones that do take it, they usually end up hating it.

One problem is the 1 man system.. this year we were authorized two man for the first few games.. which made it a little better .. but the stories rolled in as the season went on..

Contracts are used, the coaches (and parents) are still abusive.
We offered the coaches to attend the rules clinic.. well only one showed up, and he was a 14U travel ball coach who is pretty good at the rules already.

The only thing i could think of by the end of the year was me taking the 10U games and holding an ejection fest every time they ran their yap.. but thats not good either..

Any good creative solutions that could be implemented before/ at the begining of season to perhaps lesson of this impact these new coaches have on the new begining umpires.

Or maybe its only are area that has trouble with the 10Uers

Nope.

10u is a special creature for the reasons you mentioned. One thing I would suggest is that you DONT use younger umpires there if you can help it. Those coaches NEED veteran umpires to control them and answer their questions.

We start our younger umpires at 12u (its tricky enough that anything can still happen) Our assigner tries to rotate people through the 10u so umpires dont get burnt out on it. If at all possible use 2 men for your 10u games also..


I also spend a little extra time with the coaches at the plate. I tell them that if they have a question during the game, CALL time, and ASK the umpire who is responsible for the call. I tell them that yelling from the dugout (or anywhere else) will NOT be tolerated. This keeps the acting out to a minimum.

Parents are an issue that can be handled by the tournament staff.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Parents are an issue that can be handled by the tournament staff.

I've found parents are better handled with a rope and gag.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I've found parents are better handled with a rope and gag.

I like using piano wire instead of rope . . . I've always said, if I win the lottery, I'm gonna build a 5 or 6 field complex where all the fields are back-to-back and there's NO SEATING available. There will be big screens available in the air-conditioned building where the parents can watch on closed circuit. I'm debating on whether I would allow coaches to be on the field or put them in a separate room . . .

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Nope.

10u is a special creature for the reasons you mentioned. One thing I would suggest is that you DONT use younger umpires there if you can help it. Those coaches NEED veteran umpires to control them and answer their questions.

We start our younger umpires at 12u (its tricky enough that anything can still happen) Our assigner tries to rotate people through the 10u so umpires dont get burnt out on it. If at all possible use 2 men for your 10u games also..


I also spend a little extra time with the coaches at the plate. I tell them that if they have a question during the game, CALL time, and ASK the umpire who is responsible for the call. I tell them that yelling from the dugout (or anywhere else) will NOT be tolerated. This keeps the acting out to a minimum.

Parents are an issue that can be handled by the tournament staff.

I know they are going to hold mandatory coaching clinics, I'm going to offer to do a rules section during that.

2 man is not really possible - I'm going to push for 2 man in the 14Us and will be a miracle to get that.. its a hard sell for the 10Us when they dont even have standings.

A big problem is the 10U field is at the elementary school next to the softball park .. so somewhat secluded. The league staff needs to have more of a presense because the parents in 10U are horrible.

Starting noobs at 12U is actually a real good idea instead of burning them at 10U's..

Thanks for the responses.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Price your one man at an extreme premium, so that 1) it makes sense to use two, or 2) so that your experienced umpires are willing to work it.

One man in this area (I won't offer it to a league, but have a fee if that happens) pays 150% two man; in 2006, $36 each for two, $54 for one. I have no problem making the argument that 1) one man has to work 150% harder to cover the field, 2) the coverage they get with two umpires is well worth the minimal added cost ($72 versus $54) and 3) my ability to train my less experienced staff benefits the leagues, too, and two man makes that possible at a minimal added cost.

So far, not one league I deal with has pushed the issue for one man, based on this scale and the rationale.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Let me add; I also have a strategy to counter manpower shortage resulting in wanting to use one umpire. In several of our youth associations, I actively recruit older youths to be base umpires in their own program's younger ages. We provide training for them, the league pays for them to register as ASA umpires, the league provides a scheduler/coordinator to schedule youth umpires to their games. Our adult umpire gets the standard $36 if a youth umpire calls the bases; $54 if the youth no shows. The league pays the youth umpires $15 when they do work; pretty decent money for girls 14 to 16 or 17, better than they can get babysitting.

These are players in the older ages, so they have some general game knowledge to begin with; but every one has learned more about the game from the new perspective. We gain the needed manpower to continue using two umpires, the league gets two umpire coverage at the same basic cost (after paying ASA registrations), and we have had several of these youth umpires take the step up after a few years, and joined our ranks as "adult" umpires. Everyone wins; one league has partnered with me in this program for about 7 years, now; another for 4 years.

It could work for your area, too; try it.

Editted to add:

Back to the OP, the coaches and parents learn real quickly not to yell or attack the youth umpires; 1) the adult umpire will step up to protect them, 2) because the league bought in to the program, any issues are dealt with quickly and firmly, and 3) since these girls come from their own league, they may face the youth's parents (who are often coaches and board members). It brings a different (and calming) perspective to the games.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Let me add; I also have a strategy to counter manpower shortage resulting in wanting to use one umpire. In several of our youth associations, I actively recruit older youths to be base umpires in their own program's younger ages. We provide training for them, the league pays for them to register as ASA umpires, the league provides a scheduler/coordinator to schedule youth umpires to their games. Our adult umpire gets the standard $36 if a youth umpire calls the bases; $54 if the youth no shows. The league pays the youth umpires $15 when they do work; pretty decent money for girls 14 to 16 or 17, better than they can get babysitting.

These are players in the older ages, so they have some general game knowledge to begin with; but every one has learned more about the game from the new perspective. We gain the needed manpower to continue using two umpires, the league gets two umpire coverage at the same basic cost (after paying ASA registrations), and we have had several of these youth umpires take the step up after a few years, and joined our ranks as "adult" umpires. Everyone wins; one league has partnered with me in this program for about 7 years, now; another for 4 years.

It could work for your area, too; try it.

Editted to add:

Back to the OP, the coaches and parents learn real quickly not to yell or attack the youth umpires; 1) the adult umpire will step up to protect them, 2) because the league bought in to the program, any issues are dealt with quickly and firmly, and 3) since these girls come from their own league, they may face the youth's parents (who are often coaches and board members). It brings a different (and calming) perspective to the games.

Man your fees are way up there.. I would LOVE to try that type of stuff.. unfortunately its a rec league that doesnt really opperate that way ..

Some great ideas though.. I would like to solve the problem or do something.. this year an adult parent first tried to climb the fence to get on the field, fell off the fence, then charged the field at the umpire resulting in a huge mess, a forfeit and banning from the league of a parent. The umpire, a 15 y/o rookie, not to mention my daughter, had her hands full. She made me proud though.. and she WASNT one of the ones who refused to work anymore because of the way the 10Us act.

That said, somethings gotta be done and I am going to discuss it at length at the board meeting.


I may suck as an umpire, but that dont matter cuz I know one tough girl who will be working the CWS

[Ran.D]

It helps to be patient at the younger age groups and take time to explain the rules to the coaches. Use umpspeak, or cite the rule. Most are not knowledgeable, but want to appear so to the players and parents.

Take time to explain the rules (even if they say they understand) when the call is not controversial, or impacting the score. Then when a call does not go their way, since you've already provided the explananation, repeat the rule and suggest they explain to the parents.

Also, make sure they know the difference between a rules question and a judgement call and interference and obstruction.

[tcblue13]

How great would it be to have a league where players have an appreciation of umpire and and an understanding of the rules from an umpires perspective?

Thanks Steve!

[Gulf Coast Blue]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news.......but.......if you allow them to be butt-heads at 10U........they will most likely be *#$#$@*$@ by time they are 12 or 14 and under.......or maybe worse........d;-)

As Barney Fife would say........"Nip it......Nip it......Nip it in the bud"

This is a special condition...........dump the bad coaches......early and often.

JMHO

Joel

[oneonone]

Invite your TD to the field when you know that you will be calling a game of one of the habitual offenders. Point out to the TD or highlight in what ever rule book your league is following the rule that prohibits the coaches from arguing judgements calls before the game begins. Have the TD join the pregame meeting with the coaches and let the TD set the tone of the game, the TD will read the rule, verify the coaches understand it and then you tell the coaches that you are sure there wont be a problem but if there is, one warning will be issued and the next violation will include their dismissal from the field. Unfortunatle many coaches at this level feel that "they" are not governed by the Blu, only thier players are. Having the presence of a TD or a local league official involved may provide the "show" of support you need to control the coaches that have trouble giving you the respect that you are due.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by oneonone

Invite your TD to the field when you know that you will be calling a game of one of the habitual offenders. Point out to the TD or highlight in what ever rule book your league is following the rule that prohibits the coaches from arguing judgements calls before the game begins. Have the TD join the pregame meeting with the coaches and let the TD set the tone of the game, the TD will read the rule, verify the coaches understand it and then you tell the coaches that you are sure there wont be a problem but if there is, one warning will be issued and the next violation will include their dismissal from the field. Unfortunatle many coaches at this level feel that "they" are not governed by the Blu, only thier players are. Having the presence of a TD or a local league official involved may provide the "show" of support you need to control the coaches that have trouble giving you the respect that you are due.

I agree that the show of solidarity is good. I don't think I need the TD (or want him) at my plate meeting. I simply tell coaches if they want to discuss a rule to call time and be properly recognized - if they want to discuss a judgement call to just simply bang their head on the dugout - might not do them anygood but at least they'll have a red mark on their forehead to show for it!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

I agree that the show of solidarity is good. I don't think I need the TD (or want him) at my plate meeting. I simply tell coaches if they want to discuss a rule to call time and be properly recognized - if they want to discuss a judgement call to just simply bang their head on the dugout - might not do them anygood but at least they'll have a red mark on their forehead to show for it!

My standard plate meeting includes the Sportsmanship Speech. In this, after the usual yadda yadda, I say the following, "If either of you coaches have a question about a call or a ruling, I am happy to discuss it, so long as you request TIME, and when granted approach me in polite, professional manner. I am less willing to argue about calls, though. You will get a result if you yell across the field, but it may not be the result you want." This is delivered, not as a lecture, but in a somewhat lighthearted tone, with a smile.

I've found that the coaches of younger teams joke back at this, but get the message. For the few that don't, I can refer them back to the plate meeting as a reminder to calm them down short of ejection, etc.