Im gonna stir the pot a little...

[Al]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Back to the actual OP ... if umpires were contracted to work a tournament, and tourney officials decided to change the rate of pay contracted, I have NO PROBLEM at all with any umpires who decided to simply go home. Heck, I wouldn't have any problem if the whole lot of them up and left on Saturday when they learned of the issue.

Hey mcrowder,

I still smile every time I think of that call you made looking at the wrong first base line after getting up from a slip. That was the clear winner in the "what was the worst call you ever made" thread.

We have it pretty good here in TN. For one thing it's very rare, even in rec ball, to go with only one umpire. And as far as pay goes...in the baseball tournament I was in we got paid 32.50 per game. We had one game rained out, but the tourney offical paid the umpires $20.00 for that game anyway. I didn't expect that but I know some of the umpires had to drive in from a pretty good distance so I think that's why he paid for part of that game. ...Later, ..Al

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

and you would be wrong.....

NO!!!. Because the tourney officials BROKE the contract with the umpires when they lowered the agreed-upon fee(s).

Bob

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

and you would be wrong.....

I disagree with you Darrell.
I have been at a tournament more than once where the TD decided to change the pay rate.
I have to say that at BB tourneys, we walked. en masse. After we told the coaches and parents why.

Never had a walk out of a softball tourney, but we did tell the coaches and parents why there would be no umpires for future tounaments under that particular TD.
And the umpires stuck to it, together.

I have been at a tourament where the umpires walked out en masse after learning that the UIC for the tounament was cheated out of his pay and had paid us (the umpires) out of his own pocket.

That tounament, by the way, is now non-existant as even the complex won't allow the organizer in.

I normally say that we should honor our committment no matter what, but.....there is a time and a place for a walk out.

I do think if the situation is so bad that you have to walk or decide not to work in the future, let the coaches and parents (if youth) know why it is the way it is.

This is a slippery slope that could damage your reputation for many years or it may solidify your umpire association and its credibility.

In my view, there is no correct answer to this situation.

[CecilOne]

How bad was the OP case?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

How bad was the OP case?

Yeah how much was the change? Was the fee droped $5, $10, $15? Personally, I wouldn't quibble much over $5 - but with the price of gas today I wouldn't be judgemental if someone did.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Yeah how much was the change? Was the fee droped $5, $10, $15? Personally, I wouldn't quibble much over $5 - but with the price of gas today I wouldn't be judgemental if someone did.

I dont' know. Fifteen games at $5 is a decent amount of money to some folks. Then again, there is the principle of the issue.

How would a tournament director like it if after pool play, the umpires decided the money they were getting was only worth five innings a game and wouldn't work any more innings than that? You don't think the TD would be jumping around, screaming and hollaring about that? You don't think he would be calling a manager's meeting to make them aware of the situation?

There are probably some TDs that would just cancel the tournament.

[bluezebra]

"Im gonna stir the pot a little..."

And all this time I thought pot was smoked, not stirred.

Bob

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I dont' know. Fifteen games at $5 is a decent amount of money to some folks. Then again, there is the principle of the issue.

Yes, I agree with you (again). If I work 15 games and get paid $30 per game and make $450 that's great! However, if I work 15 games and get paid $25 per game and go home with $375 - I'm still a pretty happy camper. I'm the kind of guy that won't give up $375 just because they cut my pay by $5 per game. Now, if they cut my pay $10 or $15 per game - we might have a different issue. I may be a softball whore, but I DO have principles!

OK, here's my 2 cents worth.

I was at the tournament. And first, I was extremely honored to have been selected to this tournament. Now, here is my take.

First of all, I was always told from the time I was selected what the pay would be. And it didn't change between then and when I got my paycheck. I was also very pleasantly surprised when we got a travel "stipend". This, I was not expecting. I have heard of umpires in different associations who had to pay their way to prestigious tournaments, and didn't get any kind of offset for their travel. Now, I do know of umpires working extra games because certain umpires got ill/injured. This actually happened to me. I picked up an extra game, but the umpire I called for, turned around and paid me her game fee, since she was paid for this game. So it all worked out!

Now, I know the schedule for championship Sunday was changed "numerous" times. And yes, I did hear about umpires turning in games. What I never heard, was, why they were turned back in. But, there were some umpires who had airline flights booked for Sunday, so, this may have had something to do with them turning assignments back in. Of all the umpires I talked to who had Sunday games, none of them turned them back in. But then again, I was just happy to get a Sunday assignment.

Now, as for the umpires at this tournament. I had a blast and enjoyed my time their. I met some great umpires and even got to work with some of them also. I would be more than happy to go back.

Serg

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

NO!!!. Because the tourney officials BROKE the contract with the umpires when they lowered the agreed-upon fee(s).

Bob

The contract is NOWHERE as near as important as the teams and the games.... Finish up..dont go back next year....

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by VaASAump

... But, there were some umpires who had airline flights booked for Sunday, so, this may have had something to do with them turning assignments back in.

If an umpire accepts a tournament assignment, he needs to either be available for the entire tournament, have his assignments in advance so he knows when to book return flights, or communicate clearly and in advance to the UIC / scheduler what is travel arrangements are. JMO.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If an umpire accepts a tournament assignment, he needs to either be available for the entire tournament, have his assignments in advance so he knows when to book return flights, or communicate clearly and in advance to the UIC / scheduler what is travel arrangements are. JMO.

I agree with you on this but the nature of tournaments is that often they run behind and then that cushion of time you have given yourself untiil your flight is gone.
There was a really large tounament here in FL that used to be ASA that always ended up going behind schedule in spite of drop dead time limits.
Twice a year, there would end up being umpires scheduled for the final day who had to give back their games due to this problem.
Weather was often a problem, injuries, and waiting on the fields to be reworked all contributed to the problem.

Sometimes, it happens and a good UIC and TD can work with it.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

I agree with you on this but the nature of tournaments is that often they run behind and then that cushion of time you have given yourself untiil your flight is gone....
Sometimes, it happens and a good UIC and TD can work with it.

I agree. I didn't mean for my comment to cover unforseen circumstances.