Infield Fly Rule

[DSUAUmpire]

After much debate in our association; I thought I would let some of the better minds in softball help. The question is: Should the level of play determine whether or not you call an infield fly? My position is that a pop fly in the infield (with runners on 1st and 2nd and less then 2 outs of course) that can be caught with ordinary effort the infield fly rule should be called whether your are calling Men's A or COED D. IMO the ability of the players on the field is not the dermining factor.

[tcblue13]

Call it
The rule is there for a reason
Too many complications can arise by not calling it especially with base runners not knowing what to do.

The batter has to be out so that the runners can stay put

I would be interested in knowing the logic behind not calling it.

[baldgriff]

Originally Posted by DSUAUmpire

After much debate in our association; I thought I would let some of the better minds in softball help. The question is: Should the level of play determine whether or not you call an infield fly? My position is that a pop fly in the infield (with runners on 1st and 2nd and less then 2 outs of course) that can be caught with ordinary effort the infield fly rule should be called whether your are calling Men's A or COED D. IMO the ability of the players on the field is not the dermining factor.

The individual level of ablility for each player is different. Some SS may have great range and be able to make a play in short OF without any difficulty where as a 14 year old girl could be camped under the ball and still not catch it with ease.

Last night I had the 2 worst teams in the league play each other. There were 2 potential IFF that I did not call because I knew the ability of the players involved - literally more than 4 steps to catch it was more than ordinary effort (Neither were caught by the way). The one I did call the girl was camped under it and did catch it.

What is ordinary effort is different by player and should be called as such.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Call it
The rule is there for a reason
Too many complications can arise by not calling it especially with base runners not knowing what to do.

The batter has to be out so that the runners can stay put

I would be interested in knowing the logic behind not calling it.

I think some of it is oridnary effort for a high schooler is not ordinary effort for a 12 year old. I don't agree with that, but I think that is where some of it comes from.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by gsf23

I think some of it is oridnary effort for a high schooler is not ordinary effort for a 12 year old. I don't agree with that, but I think that is where some of it comes from.

I understand the difference in skill level and that has to play a part in the call itself. Every call is different in every game.
But to say that you (generic sense) won't call it at all in a certain level of play is to say that you are ignoring a rule that helps protect the vulnerable base runners from getting hung out on an infield fly.
That is what I am saying.

[Dakota]

Yes, level of play / player skill can be taken into account. After all, ordinary effort for Crystl Bustos is not the same as ordinary effort for little Sally Tenyou.

However, you do need to keep in mind the purpose of the rule - to protect the offense; to allow the runners to stay put on their bases.

Also, in ASA, it is allowed to call the IF after-the-fact and rectify placing players in jeopardy by not calling it. (Although you could expect some lively discussions to follow.)

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I understand the difference in skill level and that has to play a part in the call itself. Every call is different in every game.
But to say that you (generic sense) won't call it at all in a certain level of play is to say that you are ignoring a rule that helps protect the vulnerable base runners from getting hung out on an infield fly.
That is what I am saying.

But you do have to take level of play into account somewhat. A pop-up into short left field is going to be an infield fly in a high school and college game, but is probably not going to be in a 12-under game. I do think you have to decide before hand, What is reasonable effort at this level. I'm not saying that I will never call it, I'm just saying that as you move up in level , the area for an infield fly is going to get larger.

Now, I don't extend it to individual players I keep it at a league level. I'm never going to call an infield fly for one team and not another just because they have a better shortstop.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

The individual level of ablility for each player is different. Some SS may have great range and be able to make a play in short OF without any difficulty where as a 14 year old girl could be camped under the ball and still not catch it with ease.

Last night I had the 2 worst teams in the league play each other. There were 2 potential IFF that I did not call because I knew the ability of the players involved - literally more than 4 steps to catch it was more than ordinary effort (Neither were caught by the way). The one I did call the girl was camped under it and did catch it.

What is ordinary effort is different by player and should be called as such.

This is where I disagree. I think you take into account the level as a whole, but not idividual players.

Let's say you have your worst shortstop in the league again and they are playing the team with the best shortstop. Pop up and the best SS ranges over about 7 steps for the easy grab and you call infield fly, no problem. Now two innings later, same pop-up but worst SS this time, it's an easy pop-up, but you know she is the worst in the league and isn't going to catch it so you no call it. Now coach comes out and asks why it's an infield fly for them and not for us. You are honestly going to say to him they get the infield fly because they are better?

[baldgriff]

Originally Posted by gsf23

This is where I disagree. I think you take into account the level as a whole, but not idividual players.

Let's say you have your worst shortstop in the league again and they are playing the team with the best shortstop. Pop up and the best SS ranges over about 7 steps for the easy grab and you call infield fly, no problem. Now two innings later, same pop-up but worst SS this time, it's an easy pop-up, but you know she is the worst in the league and isn't going to catch it so you no call it. Now coach comes out and asks why it's an infield fly for them and not for us. You are honestly going to say to him they get the infield fly because they are better?

Yes I am. The rule states that the player has to be able to make the play with ordinary effort - not the SS for the other team. It doesnt say call it because the other teams SS can make the play. It state, that the ball must be caught with resonable effort. If the worst SS cant range 7 steps and catch it then I am not giving it to her.

Keep in mind here, the sitch I am using is somewhat tainted because I know the ability of the players becuase I have seen each of them play all summer long. I know what their resonable effort is and truthfully, some of them will not attempt to range more than a couple steps.

[Dakota]

You need to take into account individual player POSITION, but you'll drive yourself crazy with overthinking (IMO) if you go beyond that to individual player skill. I agree with gsf23 - you can (and should) adjust your judgment of "ordinary effort" to the level of play, but not to the individual player.

[mcrowder]

Also consider that at lower levels of fielder ability you also have lower levels of runner ability. The intent is to protect the offense from an easy DP - if the fielders are worse, it's likely that the runners are worse too.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Don't our manuals tell us to judge a ball at its apex; and look for someone camped under it (or capable of camping under it)? While I can see both sides of this discussion, it still comes down to judging if the ball can be caught. A defense unable to catch that ball is equally likely to be unable to turn the DP. Let's not reward an inept defense in the name of "protecting" the offense.

[Steve M]

I suspect that if you wait until the ball is on the way down, you will see whether the individual play requires ordinary effort or not. And in taking another look at the post, just before submitting it, it looks like Steve has beat me to it.

Anyway, by waiting on the call, the fielder ability will show itself to be ordinary effort or something else. This will pretty much eliminate the question GSF is expecting from the coach "Now coach comes out and asks why it's an infield fly for them and not for us. You are honestly going to say to him they get the infield fly because they are better?" My answer will be something like "Coach, in my judgement, one of those plays took an ordinary effort and the other one required more than that."

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

Yes I am. The rule states that the player has to be able to make the play with ordinary effort - not the SS for the other team. It doesnt say call it because the other teams SS can make the play. It state, that the ball must be caught with resonable effort. If the worst SS cant range 7 steps and catch it then I am not giving it to her.

Keep in mind here, the sitch I am using is somewhat tainted because I know the ability of the players becuase I have seen each of them play all summer long. I know what their resonable effort is and truthfully, some of them will not attempt to range more than a couple steps.

What do you mean by "giving it to her"? Calling IFR benefits the offense, not the defense. Even if the defense gets a "cheap out" from IFR on a ball not caught, they probably would get a runner out anyway. At least that's the purpose and expectation of the rule.

[baldgriff]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What do you mean by "giving it to her"? Calling IFR benefits the offense, not the defense. Even if the defense gets a "cheap out" from IFR on a ball not caught, they probably would get a runner out anyway. At least that's the purpose and expectation of the rule.

I am not going to give her credit for the abitility to make a catch that I KNOW she cant make. Again and please understand this clearly, I have watched these teams all season long. The cases I am talking about today are players that if the ball is hit more than 3 steps away, they are not going to try for it.

If I am doing a tournament and dont know the players I am absolutely going to have to make a judgement call on it. On the ones I am talking about, it wasnt judgement as much as just knowing that there was no possible way that the player was going to catch the ball with reasonable effort.