Submission for quote of the year, 2006

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

The girls followed her coaches direction. She walked the player but in doing so she threw an illegal pitch and decided the game.

This is not an opportunity for preventitive umpiring but an opportunity to enforce a rule and go home.

AMEN...we are NOT out there to coach! I have another example:

16u PONY tournament...in the 6th inning, coach A puts in a CR for the C. Now I KNOW that he has already used all his bench players..BUT..I do not say a WORD..sure enough, after the one pitch, coach B starts going 'hey blue!' THEN I pull out the lineup..go through the motions of looking it over, and then bangs out that CR (and disqualifies of course!) for the infraction...The point being, it is the job of these coaches to know the rules..especially on the travel team level,where there is serious $$ involved.If you want me to coach too, pay me more than the $xx a game I am being paid to just umpire.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

by the way blu....GREAT name!

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

AMEN...we are NOT out there to coach! I have another example:

16u PONY tournament...in the 6th inning, coach A puts in a CR for the C. Now I KNOW that he has already used all his bench players..BUT..I do not say a WORD..sure enough, after the one pitch, coach B starts going 'hey blue!' THEN I pull out the lineup..go through the motions of looking it over, and then bangs out that CR (and disqualifies of course!) for the infraction...The point being, it is the job of these coaches to know the rules..especially on the travel team level,where there is serious $$ involved.If you want me to coach too, pay me more than the $xx a game I am being paid to just umpire.

That wouldn't be coaching, that would be doing YOUR job. There is no reason to accept an illegal substitution, and it was your job to say that was an illegal substitution. It can't happen accidently if you are doing your job; and should never happen knowingly on your part.

Sorry, I disagree completely with your example.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

That wouldn't be coaching, that would be doing YOUR job. There is no reason to accept an illegal substitution, and it was your job to say that was an illegal substitution. It can't happen accidently if you are doing your job; and should never happen knowingly on your part.

Sorry, I disagree completely with your example.

Me too. Thank you for the voice of reason.

[CelticNHBlue]

A cute quote some of you may have experienced:

Banger at first and I sell the out. Before I am even done-

BR "But I am faster than I look, blue!!!"

[blu_bawls]

Disagree. I may ask the coach if he/she is sure they want to do it but then stop there.

Why should I take an opportunity from the defense to get an out because they were on their toes and the offense wasn't?

With a runner on base and a fly ball to the outfield, do you tell the runner when she can leave on a tag-up? It's the same thing. You would be preventing an out from possible being awarded to the defense if they appealed a runner leaving early on a fcaught lyball.

Giving a coach feedback when they ask if they can do something is one thing but giving counsel without being asked is another.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

With a runner on base and a fly ball to the outfield, do you tell the runner when she can leave on a tag-up? It's the same thing.

No, it isn't. The difference is that with a CR you should be taking out your lineup card and noting the change. If you knowingly make note of an illegal change, you are not doing your job. You now have an illegal lineup card in your pocket that you created.

Now, if the umpire screws up and unknowingly allows an illegal sub, CR, or lineup, then the coach and his team are the ones who will pay the penalty if the opponents notice, but it is still the umpire who screwed up.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Dakota

No, it isn't. The difference is that with a CR you should be taking out your lineup card and noting the change. If you knowingly make note of an illegal change, you are not doing your job. You now have an illegal lineup card in your pocket that you created.

Now, if the umpire screws up and unknowingly allows an illegal sub, CR, or lineup, then the coach and his team are the ones who will pay the penalty if the opponents notice, but it is still the umpire who screwed up.

In our Assoc. The BU is responsible for tracking courtesy runners. This would leave us open to the possibility cited above since the PU with the lineup card does not note that. I will be talking to our clinician about that.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

In our Assoc. The BU is responsible for tracking courtesy runners. This would leave us open to the possibility cited above since the PU with the lineup card does not note that. I will be talking to our clinician about that.

I like CR tracking by BU, too. It's still a change that must be reported and it's on the mental lineup card, if not on the written one.

[blu_bawls]

Originally Posted by Dakota

No, it isn't. The difference is that with a CR you should be taking out your lineup card and noting the change. If you knowingly make note of an illegal change, you are not doing your job. You now have an illegal lineup card in your pocket that you created.

Now, if the umpire screws up and unknowingly allows an illegal sub, CR, or lineup, then the coach and his team are the ones who will pay the penalty if the opponents notice, but it is still the umpire who screwed up.

What is an illegal lineup card?

The umpires lineup card is a reference tool, not an official document. Unlike Minnesota ASA, most organizations do not require the turning in of a line up card.

The home teams book is the official reference of record.

A team can do anything they want to the lineup. They can bat out of order, they can enter illegal and unreported substitutions as much as they want until the other team says something about their actions.

As an umpire, the only substitution you shouldn't allow is a player who has been ejected or confined to the bench.

There are penalties for illegal subs in every rule book and they are there to penalize the offending team and reward the team offended.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

What is an illegal lineup card?

The umpires lineup card is a reference tool, not an official document. Unlike Minnesota ASA, most organizations do not require the turning in of a line up card.

The home teams book is the official reference of record.

A team can do anything they want to the lineup. They can bat out of order, they can enter illegal and unreported substitutions as much as they want until the other team says something about their actions.

As an umpire, the only substitution you shouldn't allow is a player who has been ejected or confined to the bench.

There are penalties for illegal subs in every rule book and they are there to penalize the offending team and reward the team offended.

Wow!! And, to think Emily spent all that effort creating a system of lineup card management for something that is only a reference tool.

Not sure where you umpire, blu_bawls, but start clicking your heels; time to go home.