Time limit - -when does clock start running

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Steve M

I don't see a whole lot of "time limit" games. Some of the games I do see should have a time limit, but that's another subject.

In the vast majority of our tournaments, the games are 1:20 with a new game starting at 1:30. The games start at 8am and usually end around 10 pm. The fields are worked by a 3 man crew (2 working the game 1 guy off). PU rotates to BU. Off guy goes to PU. BU guy gets a game off. The base guy will stay on the field to start the new game while the PU is getting his crap off so he can work the bases.

There isnt a lot of time for the clock moral police and it really screws it up for everyone, including the beloved girls and their paying parents, when one of them is in your crew.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You better be careful bkbjones, you might find yourself working in Delaware.

Which would mean he is highly qualified and offered access to good and accurate training.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

At the risk of incurring wrath:

1. Why start the clock at any time other than on the first pitch? the only exception I can see that is fair to the teams is to add one minute and start it at the end of the plate conference. The home team has been determined by this time.

The reason I tried to get it moved to the end of the pre-game meeting was to encourage the coaches to get the team on the field and playing. Instead, there is a waste of time before you get that first pitch. I know you have seen this happen after the pre-game. Coach has a team meeting outside the dugout. Players move to their position with bench players on the lines to help them warm up (like they need it after spending the past hour going through drills elsewhere), the coach meandering around the circle talking to the pitcher while she it slowly and deliberately going through her warm-ups. At the same time, the offense has their own little meeting, the first batter waits until after the meeting to find her helmet, bat and any other paraphenailia she may need to bat.

Of course, everyone is going to say that it's the umpire's fault for not enforcing the one minute warm-up time for the pitcher. And that is true, though it will start the game off on the wrong foot for the crew. You also have the coach which holds the pitcher until the rest of the team is on the field.

2. What in the !$#@ gives us the RIGHT to "interpret" anything concerning time, time limits or time remaining? It is not our game, our field or our anything. These teams pay beau coups bucks (including your pay) to play in these tournaments. If they have, say, a 1:20 time limit, interpreting that to mean 1:18 or anything else less than 1:20 is no less of a sin than, say, a supermarket checker or bank teller tapping the till. If you feel that you need to "interpret" 1:20 as something less, you're stealing from the players and stealing from the game. That is not my opinion; that is fact.

Speaking ASA, it is also the rule. Like the teams who have no complaint about time limits advertised before getting into the tournament, the umpires should have no complaint about allowing the full time to expire before ending a game.

BTW, let me know anytime you are hitting the Midatlantic area, I would welcome you help on the field.

[Skahtboi]

If the UIC tells me the clock starts at the conclusion of the plate meeting, then that is when the clock starts. If he tells me that it starts with the first warm-up pitch, then that is when I start the clock. If he tells me that I should start with the first pitch of the game, then that is when I start it. It is really a pretty simple concept.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

If the UIC tells me the clock starts at the conclusion of the plate meeting, then that is when the clock starts. If he tells me that it starts with the first warm-up pitch, then that is when I start the clock. If he tells me that I should start with the first pitch of the game, then that is when I start it. It is really a pretty simple concept.

Since I'm beginning to do more of these timed games - means more youth tournaments instead of adult tournamens - I went & bought one of those countdown timers. It's easy enough to hit start when I say "Play" - that's close enough to the first pitch.
As for ending it before the time limit, nah, let them play.

Wade - kinda a different topic, but you said that your folks use a base-to-plate-to-off rotation. When I was working 2 on & 1 off, I always preferred the plat-to-base-to-off rotation as it meant that fresh legs were comingonto the plate. We would have the former base ump stay for the start of the game while the PU changed to keep things moving. For the past several years, I really prefer the 1-on, 1-off rotation with 4 umps to a field. Call it age or whatever, but this way, I can give every game all the intensity it deserves.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

In the vast majority of our tournaments, the games are 1:20 with a new game starting at 1:30.

With such a tight schedule (assuming they are finishing all innings), I can understand the desire to cheat on the clock to keep fields and umpires on schedule.

However, why does it fall to the umpire to keep things on schedule with a secret "actual" time limit?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

With such a tight schedule (assuming they are finishing all innings), I can understand the desire to cheat on the clock to keep fields and umpires on schedule.

However, why does it fall to the umpire to keep things on schedule with a secret "actual" time limit?

Its not a secret, I use one of the countdown kitchen timers that the coaches can look at when they want to, announce when I start the clock, and usually announce when there is around 10 mins left. Most coaches around here are pretty familiar with how these exposure tournies go.

[Chess Ref]

In our local SB beer leagues we have gametime as start time. If a game runs long the next start time is 5 minutes after end of previous game.

I have seen in our JO tourneys, time and it's application,evolve into very controversial stuff.
I personally have been reamed by more senior umps for starting a new inning when there was 2 minutes left. This was a 1 run game and quite frankly I was having a blast.
I have been uncomfortable when I am expected to lie/cheat people on the time stuff. I was BU when PU announced "Time has expired" and the losing team wanted another inning. The problem was the PU jerked them out of about 2 minutes. I just happened to keep time for myself that game and apparently so did the losing team. Big yelling, big protest. Finally UIC asked me if I had anything to add. . PU and some fellow umps pissed at me, some umps had my back, UIC not happy he asked me, assignor calls me at home and says.......good job-he's got my back........So my choices were back my partner who knowingly shorted them or tell what I had

bottom line for me is I go by the book ...no more no less.....

[NCASAUmp]

And going by the book is honestly one of the easiest ways you can always protect yourself in these kinds of situations. I've been bitten a number of times when there's only 35 seconds left on the clock, and the third out of the bottom half of the inning is made, forcing the game to go another disasterous 10-15 minutes. I hate it, it sucks, but hey... What can you do?

If your partner is in a hurry to get home, barring any emergency circumstances, why are they even bothering to umpire in the first place? Shorting teams their playing time only sends the message that the umpire is letting their schedule bias their calls (more outs = getting home faster, and the PU calling "ball" on good pitches = running out the clock). It even flies in the face of our own rule book which prohibits teams from monkeying with the clock through noticeable delays of the game.

In uniform, I have nowhere else to be other than the ballfield for the duration of the games. Period. If an umpire doesn't like that fact, at bare minimum they shouldn't call with me, or even not call at all.

Edited: Changed "fewest" to "easiest." My statement reads better that way.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Its not a secret, I use one of the countdown kitchen timers that the coaches can look at when they want to, announce when I start the clock, and usually announce when there is around 10 mins left. Most coaches around here are pretty familiar with how these exposure tournies go.

Then I don't understand your previous post.
bkbjones wrote...

Originally Posted by bkbjones

...If they have, say, a 1:20 time limit, interpreting that to mean 1:18 or anything else less than 1:20 is no less of a sin than, say, a supermarket checker or bank teller tapping the till. If you feel that you need to "interpret" 1:20 as something less, you're stealing from the players and stealing from the game. That is not my opinion; that is fact.

To which you resonded...

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

...No need to be anal about the clock morals there pal.

So, naturally, I assumed you considered "time expired" to mean "less than 2 minutes remain."

Is that not what you meant?

There is no connection, BTW, between keeping an accurate clock and keeping the game moving. Completely separate issues, and I agree some umpires (and some teams) are very bad at one, the other, or both.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And going by the book is honestly one of the easiest ways you can always protect yourself in these kinds of situations.

I agree... be as straightforward with the clock as possible. No mysterious start times, no mysterious time expireds, be direct with the coaches when time starts, how much time is left, and so on.

The controversies cannot happen when everyone knows the clock situation and when it will expire.

Well, at least not THOSE controversies... you'll still have the stalling, etc., to deal with.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I agree... be as straightforward with the clock as possible. No mysterious start times, no mysterious time expireds, be direct with the coaches when time starts, how much time is left, and so on.

The controversies cannot happen when everyone knows the clock situation and when it will expire.

Well, at least not THOSE controversies... you'll still have the stalling, etc., to deal with.

Actually... I had one game where one of the players smarted off to me to hurry the batter up (and believe me, this was immediately after an out was caught) because time was running out. I called time, told him to knock it off (the attitude towards me), and continued the game. In the end, this same jerk is the one who got tossed by me at the end of the game in this post.

Controversies can still happen. Time being posted on the board does not eliminate them - sometimes, it creates them!

Though all things being equal, if they know as much as possible about the game situation, they have less room to gripe.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You better be careful bkbjones, you might find yourself working in Delaware.

HEY, WAIT A MINUTE HERE!

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

HEY, WAIT A MINUTE HERE!

No worries... although I appreciate the offer, I wouldn't let Mike subject otherwise good umpires and teams with a POS clock nazi like me.

(hears sighs of relief from NUS and others)

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Then I don't understand your previous post.
bkbjones wrote...
To which you resonded...
So, naturally, I assumed you considered "time expired" to mean "less than 2 minutes remain."

Is that not what you meant?

There is no connection, BTW, between keeping an accurate clock and keeping the game moving. Completely separate issues, and I agree some umpires (and some teams) are very bad at one, the other, or both.

I said you deal with it creatively.. one creative method is..

If you see you are coming up on a wobbler inning (ie it could last long enough to be over OR it could go quickly and you have to start a new inning)..

You tell both coaches "coach, this is probably the last inning". "OK BLUE!" the coach goes to work "alright girls this is IT!!!!"

So, presuming some non champ game where no one really cares - in most cases that starts the "last inning fervor" culminating with the supreme moment where both teams line up for the hand slaps..

Regardless of the time left on the clock, and the umpire didnt say a word except "probably" at the top of the inning.. which will give you wiggle room if you MUST start a new inning.

Creative dealing with the clock.

a few nights ago in beer league the guys all lined up with 7 mins left on the clock. They just all lined up. I think at the top of the inning some guy asked "how much time we got blue" .. I said "we're getting close to the end, I'll check for you".. then I just never checked for him. My clock is right there for all to see, not a hidden watch.. creativeness.

Now I'm sure lots of umps would have ran out and demanded they play another inning, me I couldnt hit reset on my timer quick enough.