Talk to me about Obstruction

[chibler]

Hi Fans,
Tell me if I have this right.
In Monday nights NW vs AZ game, 7th inning, Tammy Williams reaches 1st, ball is overthrown, she tries to reach 3rd, slides head first into the 3rd baseman who is blocking the bag. She's called out.

The ball arrived at the 3rd baseman a split second before Williams slid into the 3rd baseman. So, the 3rd baseman had the ball when Williams slid into her.

Now, here's the question. If Williams slides into the 3rd baseman before she gets the ball and can not get to the bag because the 3rd baseman is blocking the bag, then the 3rd baseman receives the ball and tags her, obstruction should be ruled and Williams is awarded 3rd base. Right?

Thanks!
Chris Hibler

[Dakota]

Doesn't the NCAA still include the "about to receive" clause?

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by chibler

Hi Fans...

In spite of your insulting greeting ...

Yes, I did not see the play but from your desciption believe you are right in most codes. (Specifically for NCAA, I do not know the answer to Dakota s question.)

Originally Posted by Dakota

Doesn't the NCAA still include the "about to receive" clause?

Yes, NCAA still uses the "about to receive" clause. In the mentioned play, defensive player blocked base as she was "about to receive a thrown ball". Good no call.

Serg

[chibler]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

In spite of your insulting greeting ...

Yes, I did not see the play but from your desciption believe you are right in most codes. (Specifically for NCAA, I do not know the answer to Dakota s question.)

Oops. I guess I kicked that one.
Thanks for the reply. I didn't consider that the NCAA might have a different rulebook. Doh! I should have remembered that. I was assuming ASA rules.

We play by ASA rules. I see players blocking the base without the ball all the time. Obstruction is called so infrequently that I began to question my understanding of the rule.

Similar oddball things happen alot in our league...
Does the pitcher HAVE to throw 4 pitches to issue an intentional pass? Ruling by one blue: No; Actual rule: yes
Can a base coach carry an indicator ("clicker")? Ruling by several blues: No; Actual rule: yes

I'm wierd. I like the ASA rulebook.
--
Chris Hibler

[mcrowder]

I saw this play... Even in ASA, this was not obstruction. The fielder WAS in the basepath without the ball, but the runner did not slow or alter path, and was not impeded by the fielder at all. (Had contact with F5 been made prior to the ball's arrival, we would have OBS in ASA, but not in NCAA).

[chibler]

Thanks mcrowder...that's the way I had it too. It was a great opportunity to illustrate what would be/would not be OBS.
Thanks!

[Mountaineer]

Also remember that NF removed "about to receive the ball" this year - so in HS it probably would have been OBS. Good call in NCAA.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

..so in HS it probably would have been OBS. ...

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I saw this play... Even in ASA, this was not obstruction. ...

I did not see the play, so I am speaking generally here. In both ASA and NFHS, while the fielder is NOT given any right to impede the runner when about to receive a thrown ball, in both rule sets, actually impeding the runner is required for OBS - not merely blocking the base. mccrowder argues that in this play, the runner was not impeded prior to the fielder having possession of the ball. If that was the case, there would not be OBS under any rule set.

[tcblue13]

Is it malicious contact in the NCAA to hit a player in the head with your glove holding the ball?

[chibler]

Ya, I saw that extra little whack too. Probably retaliation for the hard slide at 2nd previously. Definitely uncalled for.

For those of you who missed the play, there was a bang-bang play at 3rd with F5 in a base blocking position. However, the ball arrived at F5 before the runner slid into F5. Per my understanding and concensus here, there was no obstruction by either ASA, NFHS, or NCAA rules. F5 was not preventing the runner from reaching the bag in advance of receiving the ball.

Had the ball arrived AFTER the runner, OBS would have been called per ASA and NFHS. I don't know the NCAA particulars but it sounds like it would NOT have been OBS in NCAA.

Great info! Thanks folks!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by chibler

..Had the ball arrived AFTER the runner, OBS would have been called per ASA and NFHS. I don't know the NCAA particulars but it sounds like it would NOT have been OBS in NCAA.

I was watching the game, saw the play, and my first thought was to look for obstruction. (Maybe all those clinics and meetings are starting to kick in! )

I thought, after seeing the play in real time, there was no obstruction. My initial thought was confirmed after watching the slo-mo replay. I also noticed that the PU was right there to make the call, and she did not have the benefit of slo-mo replay.

The difference in the NCAA OBS rule vs ASA and NFHS is the "about to receive" clause. NCAA has it, the others don't. The interpretation of "about to receive" is that the ball is closer to the fielder than the runner is.

In the play being discussed, the runners path was not altered until the collision with F5. Had the collision occured before F5 had the ball, OBS should be called in all codes, including NCAA. If "about to receive" is interpreted as I mentioned earlier, and the collision happened before F5 had the ball, it is impossible for the ball to be closer to the fielder than the runner is. Therefore, F5 is not "about to receive" the ball by the interpretation above and OBS would be the correct call.

[CecilOne]

Point one is, that play was not OBS because of no impedance of runner progress before the ball was caught, any rules, regardless of "about to receive".
Point two is, even in any rules that have "about to receive" like NCAA; it would have been OBS if the contact occurred before the ball was caught.

[reccer]

The below link has video of various key plays during the tournament. The 2-0 UCLA win over Texas has a great replay of potential obstruction from the UT catcher.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2469922

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

(Had contact with F5 been made prior to the ball's arrival, we would have OBS in ASA, but not in NCAA).

Disagree. Unless the NCAA has a different definition of "about to receive" than just about everyone else, this would be OBS in NCAA.

"About to receive" is/was defined as a thrown ball that gets between the runner and defender preparing to receive the ball. Since so many people, including some umpires, were confused by this definition by taking it too literally, the definition was reinterpreted for the umpires to mean that the ball had to reach the defender prior to the runner. As you stated above, if the contact had occured prior to the ball's arrival, the "about to receive" caveat to the OBS ruling would not have been met.