Fair or Foul?

[UmpireErnie]

Larry, by every code in the land (I hope! Definately in ASA, NFHS, and LL) a batted ball that hits the batter after hitting the bat is a dead ball, but not always is it a foul ball. Obviously if the ball hits the batter the a step down the first base line and in fair territory it is not a foul ball. Can we agree on that?

This is not a rule thing so much as it is a mechanic thing, and I think you are making the same calls everyone else is, you are just making them together. First the ball is dead because it touched the batter, second the ball is a foul or it is INT on the batter depending on where this contact happened.

True it usually happens very fast and as long as the umpire is thinking about both calls I don’t see that it matters much if you say “Dead ball, foul” or just say “foul ball”. But if I am teaching someone new I am teaching to call “dead ball” first to make that new official think about both parts of this call in the proper order.

I think more often than not we get ourselves into trouble by trying to call things to fast, especially new officials who are nervous and excited. Calling “dead ball” first then ruling fair or foul is a slow down mechanic just like (as we are discussing on another thread) the “preliminary point” on a fly ball very near the foul line that is going to be caught by a fielder. Once again the mechanic teaches you to slow down and get both of the critical calls on the play (was the ball first touched fair or foul, followed by was the ball caught).

As far as ASA vs. other organizations go, I really don’t care too much about one organization over another. Different groups have different goals etc. I will play by what ever rules the locals want to go with.

If I could waive a magic wand and make it so I would like to see one national organization for youth fastpitch softball (outside of school teams). Currently there is ASA, LL, PONY, AFA, NSA, USSSA, Dixie, and probably some flavors I don’t even know about. So in any one age group with get seven or more national champions, and we have seven different rule books. And we haven’t even gotten to school teams which adds NFHS, NCAA, NJCAA, and NAIA.

Can having 11 national associations be good for the game? With all due respect, LL, PONY, and Dixie (I think) are all really baseball programs that added softball as an afterthought. If I would chose a national youth organization I would choose ASA because they are the road to the national team. But that dosen’t mean I am not going to call other flavors if that is what is going to be played in my area.

Here in Alaska for fastpitch, our high school teams play NFHS rules under the state high school association. But in youth ball the younger teams all play LL softball, with a number of older travel teams playing ASA. In adult slow pitch, the entire state plays ASA with the exception of one league in Anchorage that decided this year to go with NSA. Unfortunatly this has nothing to do with ASA vs. NSA and has everything to do with the leader of that one league not liking the state commissioner of ASA. Now the renegade league president gets to call himself “state commissioner” (for NSA) also but he only has one league. His league championship is also his "state championship" but I don't think you can really consider a team who wins that league a "state champion" when they never play another team outside of thier league.

I am not learning NSA for the same reason you did not sign up for ASA in your area, I can keep totally busy doing ASA/NFHS/LL ball. But if everyone went NSA I would learn it. I would rather have everyone doing one or the other than splintering up the game. Just IMHO!

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Larry, by every code in the land (I hope! Definately in ASA, NFHS, and LL) a batted ball that hits the batter after hitting the bat is a dead ball, but not always is it a foul ball. Obviously if the ball hits the batter the a step down the first base line and in fair territory it is not a foul ball. Can we agree on that?

Of course if they are out of the box and they come in contact with the ball that's a different story - that wasn't the issue brought up in the initial thread. The original question was concerning the batter still in the box. Again, according to NFHS 2.25.1.f a batted ball that touches a batter while in the batter's box is a foul ball. That is from the rule book - the ball is dead because it is foul. How can you argue with that?

Of course, I also think you are right - this is really minutia and we are the ONLY people in the world who get into this. It's funny, we are arguing over whether the ball is foul because it's dead or dead because it's foul. Hey, bottom line - batter stays at bat . . .

On a side note - softball in ALASKA??? Unfreakinbelievable!!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

[QUOTE=Mountaineer]It's funny, we are arguing over whether the ball is foul because it's dead or dead because it's foul. Hey, bottom line - batter stays at bat . . .
QUOTE]

Unless it is a SP game an the batter had two strikes prior to the foul ball