Hidden signals

[DaveASA/FED]

Worked with an umpire that when on the bases would hold a clinched fist for a caught 3rd strike and would point to the ground on a dropped 3rd. Almost un-noticable as hands were near waist still close to set position and didnt' move much. But, it is very helpful on those low pitches where the catch is moving and blockes the catch or no catch. I was just wondering if there were more "unapproved" but helpful communication signals.

[mcrowder]

We do the same signal here.

Only other one I can think of is if BU has a banger with a possible pulled foot BU will point at the foot and look briefly toward PU - PU will lift his foot an inch or so if the foot was pulled, or stand normal if not, and BU makes the call himself. To the average fan, it appears BU saw the pulled foot or possible pulled foot (as he's pointing at it), and ruled safe or out himself.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Trust me, guys. These are not a secret. The players and coaches know what you are doing. They notice the glances and is a bit more obvious than we as umpires would like to believe.

The bad part is when an umpire makes a call and the participants see the signal indicating something different.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Trust me, guys. These are not a secret. The players and coaches know what you are doing. They notice the glances and is a bit more obvious than we as umpires would like to believe.

The bad part is when an umpire makes a call and the participants see the signal indicating something different.

I have found that coaches are quick to pick-up on "hidden signals", especially if they see the same crews several times or if the signals are mandated by the association.

Too many signals confuse me , I'm an old guy. You want to know what I saw come and talk to me.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Trust me, guys. These are not a secret. The players and coaches know what you are doing. They notice the glances and is a bit more obvious than we as umpires would like to believe.

The bad part is when an umpire makes a call and the participants see the signal indicating something different.

Do I take this to mean to do not approve of and/or do not use these kinds of signals?

[ntxblue]

On EVERY strike three . . . closed fist for catch . . . point to ground for no catch

Instructions from local NCAA evaluators.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Worked with an umpire that when on the bases would hold a clinched fist for a caught 3rd strike and would point to the ground on a dropped 3rd. Almost un-noticable as hands were near waist still close to set position and didnt' move much. But, it is very helpful on those low pitches where the catch is moving and blockes the catch or no catch. I was just wondering if there were more "unapproved" but helpful communication signals.

Which is something I'm teaching myself to do.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Do I take this to mean to do not approve of and/or do not use these kinds of signals?

I didn't say that at all, did I?

I'm not saying using such signals are wrong, but my problem with this is the possibility of conflict especially if the teams have picked up on them.

All of a sudden, you have a base umpire straining for help from the PU on a pulled foot assuming help is there to be had. On a ball in the dirt, you may also have a BU moving into position for a steal on that play and either not give the signal or make it so obvious it seems s/he is making the call from 80' away.

I have no problem with the signals, just that umpires should not be trained or become reliant on them to make the call.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I didn't say that at all, did I?

No, you didn't, but I did infer a hint of disapproval, which is why I asked. Thanks for clarifying.

[mcrowder]

We use the same signal in the field on a 3rd strike - but use it when (and if) PU looks at BU. It's not a "secret" from everyone, but it DOES look better than the alternatives even to those that see it (and most don't). I believe it (and the pulled foot mechanic we use) also facilitates getting the call right quickly, which can be an advantage. If coaches notice or know what we're doing, more power to them - it shows them we are working together to get the right call.

[blue]

One of the umps i work with, shows a closed fist, hand at his belly burron for a caught 3rd strike, and an open hand (fingers spread wide) at the same positon for an uncaught 3rd strike. I like it cause all I have to look for is an open or closed hand.

[SC Ump]

We would touch our nose, like in the sting, when we wanted our partner to glance out in the stands. This was to alert him to (1) a reviewer grading us, or (2) a cute mom in a good looking outfit.

Yes, I know... if we were paying attention to the game instead of the cute moms, we wouldn't have needed to signal the presents of a reviewer.

[mcrowder]

Your reviewers bring presents?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

We would touch our nose, like in the sting, when we wanted our partner to glance out in the stands. This was to alert him to (1) a reviewer grading us, or (2) a cute mom in a good looking outfit.

Yes, I know... if we were paying attention to the game instead of the cute moms, we wouldn't have needed to signal the presents of a reviewer.

Reminds me of a partner I was with years ago, who called time to stop a game. When asked why, he pointed to the adjoining walkway and said "girl watch".

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

We use the same signal in the field on a 3rd strike - but use it when (and if) PU looks at BU. It's not a "secret" from everyone, but it DOES look better than the alternatives even to those that see it (and most don't). I believe it (and the pulled foot mechanic we use) also facilitates getting the call right quickly, which can be an advantage. If coaches notice or know what we're doing, more power to them - it shows them we are working together to get the right call.

Which is fine until the umpire makes a call and a coach/player notices the partner giving an indication s/he saw something else.

The crew cannot win in this circumstance.