Hidden signals

[DaveASA/FED]

Worked with an umpire that when on the bases would hold a clinched fist for a caught 3rd strike and would point to the ground on a dropped 3rd. Almost un-noticable as hands were near waist still close to set position and didnt' move much. But, it is very helpful on those low pitches where the catch is moving and blockes the catch or no catch. I was just wondering if there were more "unapproved" but helpful communication signals.

[mcrowder]

We do the same signal here.

Only other one I can think of is if BU has a banger with a possible pulled foot BU will point at the foot and look briefly toward PU - PU will lift his foot an inch or so if the foot was pulled, or stand normal if not, and BU makes the call himself. To the average fan, it appears BU saw the pulled foot or possible pulled foot (as he's pointing at it), and ruled safe or out himself.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Trust me, guys. These are not a secret. The players and coaches know what you are doing. They notice the glances and is a bit more obvious than we as umpires would like to believe.

The bad part is when an umpire makes a call and the participants see the signal indicating something different.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Trust me, guys. These are not a secret. The players and coaches know what you are doing. They notice the glances and is a bit more obvious than we as umpires would like to believe.

The bad part is when an umpire makes a call and the participants see the signal indicating something different.

I have found that coaches are quick to pick-up on "hidden signals", especially if they see the same crews several times or if the signals are mandated by the association.

Too many signals confuse me , I'm an old guy. You want to know what I saw come and talk to me.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Trust me, guys. These are not a secret. The players and coaches know what you are doing. They notice the glances and is a bit more obvious than we as umpires would like to believe.

The bad part is when an umpire makes a call and the participants see the signal indicating something different.

Do I take this to mean to do not approve of and/or do not use these kinds of signals?

[ntxblue]

On EVERY strike three . . . closed fist for catch . . . point to ground for no catch

Instructions from local NCAA evaluators.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by ntxblue

On EVERY strike three . . . closed fist for catch . . . point to ground for no catch

Instructions from local NCAA evaluators.

According to NCAA NUS, that is to be done on every strike three where the batter may become a batter-runner only. The plate umpire should know that help is always available if needed; but, to make the obvious and known calls without reference to the "help".

Giving the signal when a batter cannot become a batter-runner will be a negative evaluation point.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Do I take this to mean to do not approve of and/or do not use these kinds of signals?

I didn't say that at all, did I?

I'm not saying using such signals are wrong, but my problem with this is the possibility of conflict especially if the teams have picked up on them.

All of a sudden, you have a base umpire straining for help from the PU on a pulled foot assuming help is there to be had. On a ball in the dirt, you may also have a BU moving into position for a steal on that play and either not give the signal or make it so obvious it seems s/he is making the call from 80' away.

I have no problem with the signals, just that umpires should not be trained or become reliant on them to make the call.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I didn't say that at all, did I?

No, you didn't, but I did infer a hint of disapproval, which is why I asked. Thanks for clarifying.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Worked with an umpire that when on the bases would hold a clinched fist for a caught 3rd strike and would point to the ground on a dropped 3rd. Almost un-noticable as hands were near waist still close to set position and didnt' move much. But, it is very helpful on those low pitches where the catch is moving and blockes the catch or no catch. I was just wondering if there were more "unapproved" but helpful communication signals.

Which is something I'm teaching myself to do.