ASA - Batting out of Order

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

...there is no need to bring up another game in a derogatory manner.

Why not?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Steve M

In ASA, I can get 3 outs on 2 pitches.

Actually, in ASA you can get 3 outs on 1 pitch!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Actually, in ASA you can get 3 outs on 1 pitch!

Not without it being one pitch and a play.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not without it being one pitch and a play.

Steve M's was a play, too (or otherwise the improper batter would not be out). Or am I missing what you are saying?

First pitch of the inning. 3 outs.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Actually, in ASA you can get 3 outs on 1 pitch!

ITB? ?

[rodan55]

B1 is suppose to bat. B2 bats and grounds out, appeal on BOO, next batter steps in box with doctored, non-approved or altered bat; short-handed player due up; switching batter boxes infront of the catcher while the pitcher is in the pitching position. 3 outs 1 pitch. Depending on order, 3 outs no pitch.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by rodan55

B1 is suppose to bat. B2 bats and grounds out, appeal on BOO, next batter steps in box with doctored, non-approved or altered bat; short-handed player due up; switching batter boxes infront of the catcher while the pitcher is in the pitching position. 3 outs 1 pitch. Depending on order, 3 outs no pitch.

What I'm thinking of is exactly one batter, no equipment violations, team is not playing shorthanded.

[rodan55]

Ok, get technical.

[mcrowder]

ITB sitch, runner on 2nd. Improper batter comes to the plate, lines to F4 who steps on 2nd for the 2nd out. Proper appeal of BOO - 1 pitch, 3 outs.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

ITB sitch, runner on 2nd. Improper batter comes to the plate, lines to F4 who steps on 2nd for the 2nd out. Proper appeal of BOO - 1 pitch, 3 outs.

YUP! (Sorry, I missed your "ITB" answer earlier.)

[greymule]

I can't think of a realistic situation in ASA in which it is not to the defense's advantage to appeal a BOO situation. Any outs made always stand, you always get the out for the batter who failed to bat in the proper order, and no runners can advance on the pitch that completes the improper batter's at bat.

OK. If, with none out in the 6th inning, the 6th batter bats instead of the number 2 batter and hits into a double play, and if numbers 3, 4, and 5 are great hitters and numbers 7, 8, 9, and 10 are automatic outs, then the defense might keep quiet about the BOO. Same if the improper batter hits into a triple play—the defense might choose which batter it wants to lead off the next inning.

But in NCAA, which follows OBR closely, it could well be to the defense's advantage not to appeal. Years ago the Pirates batted out of order the first 2 times through the lineup, and the Mets kept quiet until the third go-round, when the improper batter got a key hit.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

This is really easy. It amazes me that anyone who actually works as an umpire and bothers to learn by coming here would have any question AT ALL about BOO. Even the nasty confusing ones are easy. I can understand newbies and coaches coming here with questions on BOO... but any umpire that cares should have this down by now.

I had this discussion with a friend of mine who probably calls more softball games in one season than I have in a lifetime.

I calls both FED and ASA.

I was always confident that *I* understood the rather radical differences between FED and ASA as far as batting-out-of-order is concerned.

Yet, my friend was absolutely adamant that they were the same.

I started doubting myself, differing to his experience. That's what prompted my question.

Thanks!

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[IRISHMAFIA]

"Radical" differences???

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

"Radical" differences???

If it is the difference between 2 out and 3 in the bottom of the 7th, it can be pretty radical!

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

"Radical" differences???

Wouldn't you say the difference in the penalties between ASA and FED for batting our-of-order is "radical?"

R1 on 1st. Improper batter ground into a double play.

The defense makes a BOO claim. How many outs in FED? How many outs in ASA? That's radical if you ask me.

Along those lines ...

Unreported substitutes.

In FED, you get a warning. If you do it again, the player is removed from the game. Never any outs.

In ASA, there can be OUTS. No warnings. Outs! Outs! Outs!

Big difference if you ask me.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm just saying that, in certain areas, there are RADICAL differences.

If you don't think the difference between a "warning" and an "out" for the same infraction is "radical", then you've obviously never coached a team.

I can assure you, a coach would consider the difference quite "radical."

David Emerling
Memphis, TN