Blue: Don't toss the bat

[LMan]

Originally Posted by baldgriff

However, you can do a Pedro Cerranno and hit a homerun and then carry the bat around the bags with you.

"Jobu no like breaking ball."

[kab9]

Not that I'm a sue crazy person, but if a player can sue an umpire for throwing a bat, how about players who throw bats after swinging? I had a girl who nearly took my, as well as the catchers', head off. When the play ended, I went to first where she was and told her if she threw the bat like that again, I was tossing her. Coach never opened his mouth. These aren't kids, they are grownups. If the bat had hit me or the catcher, no doubt a severe injury would have occurred. Anybody ever toss anyone for it? I'm curious.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by kab9

Not that I'm a sue crazy person, but if a player can sue an umpire for throwing a bat, how about players who throw bats after swinging? I had a girl who nearly took my, as well as the catchers', head off. When the play ended, I went to first where she was and told her if she threw the bat like that again, I was tossing her. Coach never opened his mouth. These aren't kids, they are grownups. If the bat had hit me or the catcher, no doubt a severe injury would have occurred. Anybody ever toss anyone for it? I'm curious.

Speaking ASA

No, the player to which you referred did not violate any rule.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BamaBlue

Since you like to slam on the English of others, I would like to point out that it's "struck a chord" and not "struck accord".

Depends on what he was driving.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by kab9

Not that I'm a sue crazy person, but if a player can sue an umpire for throwing a bat, how about players who throw bats after swinging? I had a girl who nearly took my, as well as the catchers', head off. When the play ended, I went to first where she was and told her if she threw the bat like that again, I was tossing her. Coach never opened his mouth. These aren't kids, they are grownups. If the bat had hit me or the catcher, no doubt a severe injury would have occurred. Anybody ever toss anyone for it? I'm curious.

Speaking FED
The first incident results in a team warning
Subsequent incidents result in players being restricted to the bench

I have issued several team warnings

[greymule]

In a tournament 2 weeks ago, a coach, in anxious and serious tones, since the safety of the girls was paramount, etc., told me I had to make sure I got the bat out of the way.

I've umpired ASA in NJ for many years, also Fed for a while. No rule about dropping the bat. In ASA, a thrown bat is an out only if it prevents a fielder from making a play. However, NSA, last I looked, has a rule that if you touch 1B with the bat in your hands (live ball), you're out.

Of course, a player who consistently throws the bat and persists after warnings presents a safety issue (but not a rule issue). In a similar vein, some leagues mandate removal of the pitcher after a certain number of hit batters, and for all I know some codes even have such rules in black and white, but there's no limit in ASA.

There's no rule in MLB about maximum hit batters or how many times a bat can slip from a batter's hands. But obviously at some point—3, 4, 5 straight whacks of the catcher—something has to be done.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by greymule

In ASA, a thrown bat is an out only if it prevents a fielder from making a play.

Actually, POE 52 also says you eject the player if he intentionally throws the bat in anger. Would this be an immediate dead ball and an out as well as the ejection? Suppose he hits a pop-up and thinking he's going to be out throws his bat in anger. If the infielder (no IFR in effect here) fails to catch the ball, if the batter made it safely to 1st would they be replaced by a legal sub since they were ejected? No legal sub, then we also have an out.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by rwest

Actually, POE 52 also says you eject the player if he intentionally throws the bat in anger. Would this be an immediate dead ball and an out as well as the ejection? Suppose he hits a pop-up and thinking he's going to be out throws his bat in anger. If the infielder (no IFR in effect here) fails to catch the ball, if the batter made it safely to 1st would they be replaced by a legal sub since they were ejected? No legal sub, then we also have an out.

If you judge it to be flagrant misconduct, he can be declared out. ASA Case Play 10.8-1.

[greymule]

Yes, a bat thrown in anger is another story. It doesn't have to hit anybody or interfere with a play. I was thinking of bats accidentally thrown.

I was pleased when ASA established an out for USC by a batter or runner. A runner deliberately crashing a catcher without the ball used to be an ejection, but not an out. Now it's an out and an ejection, as long as the crash occurs before the runner touches the plate. But a USC out for the offense seems to call for a corresponding "safe" for USC by the defense. As runner slides legally into 3B, F5 punches him in the nose with the ball. Besides the ejection, perhaps that should be a "safe" call for USC.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

In a tournament 2 weeks ago, a coach, in anxious and serious tones, since the safety of the girls was paramount, etc., told me I had to make sure I got the bat out of the way.

You should of told the coach that he and his lawyer are more then welcome to go move that bat as long as they do not interfere with the play.

[Steve M]

Greymule,
You said "I've umpired ASA in NJ for many years, also Fed for a while. No rule about dropping the bat. In ASA, a thrown bat is an out only if it prevents a fielder from making a play. ..."

That's not true. A discarded bat is just another part of the field. I suspect that the rule you are citing refers to a batter-runner carrying the bat and then having it slip out of their hands - then it's not discarded equipment/part of the field.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Greymule,
You said "I've umpired ASA in NJ for many years, also Fed for a while. No rule about dropping the bat. In ASA, a thrown bat is an out only if it prevents a fielder from making a play. ..."

That's not true. A discarded bat is just another part of the field. I suspect that the rule you are citing refers to a batter-runner carrying the bat and then having it slip out of their hands - then it's not discarded equipment/part of the field.

Speaking ASA

There is a penalty when the bat accidently slips from the batter's hand during a swing, follow through or backswing that prevents a defender from making a play on the ball. A bat that is simply dropped or discarded is just part of the field unless, in the umpire's judgment, the batter-runner acted in a manner to intentionally discard the bat in the path of a defender attempting to make a play. It is rare, but I've seen it happen.

[Bluefoot]

In New Haven, CT here a few years ago, (Men's ASA SP) a player threw his bat in disgust. The handle end of the bat went right through a standard chain-link fence, exactly where a spectator was watching the game with his face right up against the fence. The bat went into his skull and the spectator ended up in a coma, and his life was forever changed. Everybody got sued, and the city paid a large settlement.

In New Haven, all teams are told that if someone throws a bat in a game, that player is done for the season.

I am quick with warnings to players who throw bats in any game (ASA SP, NFHS) I work.

[Blu_IN]

NSA prohibited batter-runners from physically holding the bat when contacting first base during a live ball situation. Up until first base, you can hold the bat as long as you wish.

Blu