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Thu Mar 30, 2006, 11:51am
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Force out at 1B?
We all know that a put-out of the batter-runner at 1B is not a force out. Or do we?
For 60 years the ASA rule stated that a batter-runner was put out by tagging with the ball, or by tagging the base. Now it just says that the B-R is legally put out before reaching 1B. It is assumed that we automatically know how to get the B-R out. But old or new rule, the word "force" doesn't exist. A Runner off base can be put out by being tagged with the ball, or by tagging the base on a "force" play. We don't score a run on the 3rd out of the inning if the B-R is put out prior to 1B, or another runner is forced. Obviously there is a difference in rules for a B-R and a Runner, and there is no "force out" on a B-R. BUT . . . . . . . . Take a look at ASA double first base rules and you see the word "force" at 1B. ASA test #24 says that a put-out at 1B is a "force play." So - is a put-out at 1B a force out? Or is this just bad typing? WMB 
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Thu Mar 30, 2006, 02:09pm
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Yes, and this caused a big nasty argument on test day on which I was the ONLY person who insisted there was no correct answer, specifically because of the use of the term "force out."
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Thu Mar 30, 2006, 05:05pm
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I hope you guys put as much into the game as you do here.
For as long as I can remember, the term "force" or "force out" has been used on tests, in clinics and general discussion as a matter of convenience and I think both of you know that. It's no different than either of you using the term "BR rounded 1B" or the "BR was put out sliding into 2B", both of which we all know is not possible.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Thu Mar 30, 2006, 05:26pm
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I see your point. However, I believe it was the 2002 or 2003 test that I missed exactly one question on - and it was because I assumed that throwing the BR out at first WAS a force out, and within the framework of the question, it wasn't.
When you spend so many years taking tests that are designed to trick you by wordsmithing (not just ASA, but Fed, NCAA, football, softball, baseball, you name it), you pick up on such an anomaly and your brain immediately knows it when it sees it.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Thu Mar 30, 2006, 05:52pm
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Are there ary situations where the distinction matters? (aside from correct answers to test question)...
I know of one where it might matter, but even then, I don't think it actually does.
__________________
Tom
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Fri Mar 31, 2006, 05:26pm
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Quote:
On a play from fair territory, the BR must use the colored portion of 1B if there is a play at 1B, the runner is not required to do so. A BR may run through the bag to which they are advancing becoming a runner, a runner may not without placing themselves into jeopardy. A BR can be ruled out for creating interference with a ball thrown to 1B without it being intentional, a runner must intentionally interfere with a thrown ball for INT to be ruled. Just a couple off the top of my head.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Thu Mar 30, 2006, 07:27pm
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Quote:
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Thu Mar 30, 2006, 07:38pm
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Quote:
A batter-runner is no longer a batter-runner once retired or reaches 1B safely.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Fri Mar 31, 2006, 02:01pm
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I have the same question as Dakota - Is there an actual game situation where the distinction matters?
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