Banter

[tcblue13]

Since I started the thread, let me explain what brought it to mind.
One of our senior Umps in clinic said that he never gives a strike to a pitcher when F2 turns the mitt and allows the ball to bring her hand around her right knee (outside pitch to RH batter). But, he will tell the catch that if she wants that pitch she should frame it by not letting the ball carry her hand around.

The same is true on the low pitch. If F2 turns the mitt over, it is a ball low but if F2 catches it with the mitt upright it will more likely be called a strike.

My thinking as soon as it was said, was "what about the strike zone?"
But this ump has done a ton of ball including state playoffs and NCAA and is very well respected.

I don't think the catcher matters except to give F1 the target. I have called a number of passed balls strikes.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Since I started the thread, let me explain what brought it to mind.
One of our senior Umps in clinic said that he never gives a strike to a pitcher when F2 turns the mitt and allows the ball to bring her hand around her right knee (outside pitch to RH batter). But, he will tell the catch that if she wants that pitch she should frame it by not letting the ball carry her hand around.

The same is true on the low pitch. If F2 turns the mitt over, it is a ball low but if F2 catches it with the mitt upright it will more likely be called a strike.

My thinking as soon as it was said, was "what about the strike zone?"
But this ump has done a ton of ball including state playoffs and NCAA and is very well respected.

I don't think the catcher matters except to give F1 the target. I have called a number of passed balls strikes.

The real trick with umpiring, especially with calling balls and strikes, is consistency. We all know this. Those are obviously his tools for being consistent. If they work, why question them?

I have heard others say similar things, even attended a clinic once where the clinician said that if you see the catcher turn her glove to catch the pitch, you should probably call that pitch a ball.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Consistency is important; but so is believability. No one in top level ball believes a pitch that the catcher cannot handle effectively is a strike, and you will get more grief and loss of respect if you call that pitch a strike, even if it is.

If the pitcher misses the outside corner target back to the inside corner (roughly a 20" miss), and the catcher has to dive to make the adjustment, you are a sitting duck if you call that pitch a strike. No one believes it is; even the team whom you gave the benefit of the correct call. The other calls based on the movement of the catcher's glove are an extension of that philosophy.

[David Emerling]

I've heard some very good umpires in this area state that they PRIMARILY watch WHERE (and HOW) the catcher catches the ball in determining whether the pitch is a strike or not. They are less concerned about the exact dimensions of the strikezone and are more concerned with how the pitch appears.

Surprisingly, this actually works quite well. So often umpiring is not so much about being 100% accurate as it is about appearing to be 100% accurate.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Ran.D]

My high school daughter has caught for years and has gotten good at framing. She sells a few pitches now and then, but most umpires get it right.

For her talking with the BU is part of the game, she's an outgoing kid. However, she probably wouldn't appreciate any comment that begins with "you're not", unless it relates directly to the rules.

Sticky point for me when I'm calling is how much information, if any, to give the catcher on a ball that barely misses the zone. I'll sometimes say "close", but avoid using "low", "high", etc.

[MichaelVA2000]

For her talking with the BU is part of the game, she's an outgoing kid. However, she probably wouldn't appreciate any comment that begins with "you're not", unless it relates directly to the rules.

RanD,

I'm thinking you ment talking with the plate umpire (PU).

[Ran.D]

RanD,

I'm thinking you ment talking with the plate umpire (PU).



Correct, thats what I meant. Thanks!

[Andy]

I, too, have heard the things mentioned in David's and Steve's posts. I try to primarily focus on the ball as it comes through the zone, but on a borderline pitch, I may use the location and actions of the catcher's mitt to help decide.

Back to the original question regarding friendly banter - the mantra I was taught is "polite - but professional". I will respond to a greeting or question, I will not accept water from either team (I bring my own), and I will not attempt to coach players. If a player makes a good play and I have the opportunity, I will tell them - hey, nice play.

To add a further element to the question - do you follow the same guidelines off the field? The situation I am thinking about is at tournaments with coaches and players milling around and you may have a game off.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

For her talking with the BU is part of the game, she's an outgoing kid. However, she probably wouldn't appreciate any comment that begins with "you're not", unless it relates directly to the rules.

RanD,

I'm thinking you ment talking with the plate umpire (PU).

not unless shes REALLY loud.....