Banter

[Trojans73]

For my 1st post on this forum I will ask a rather simply question.

Many, many, many years ago while playing Little League we kids in the dugout would often try to rile the pitcher with our tradition "Hey, pitcher, pitcher, pitcher, pitcher"!

Fast forward to the present day:

In the high school varsity game, how much leeway do you give the players in the dugout? I have been to many games as a spectator and a few as an umpire where the kids will
start clapping or making some kind of collective noise/noise in unison while the pitcher is about to pitch
and continue through the pitcher's delivery.

Just needed some insight from some seasoned umpires on how to handle this. Also, what is the expectation of the coaches?

Any insight would be appreciated and if there are any specific rules on this please feel free to point them out.

Gman48

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Trojans73

For my 1st post on this forum I will ask a rather simply question.

Many, many, many years ago while playing Little League we kids in the dugout would often try to rile the pitcher with our tradition "Hey, pitcher, pitcher, pitcher, pitcher"!

Fast forward to the present day:

In the high school varsity game, how much leeway do you give the players in the dugout? I have been to many games as a spectator and a few as an umpire where the kids will
start clapping or making some kind of collective noise/noise in unison while the pitcher is about to pitch
and continue through the pitcher's delivery.

Just needed some insight from some seasoned umpires on how to handle this. Also, what is the expectation of the coaches?

Any insight would be appreciated and if there are any specific rules on this please feel free to point them out.

HS Varsity is not LL and for the most part you will not see such nonsense because at that level some kids throw in the mid to upper 80's and someone will receive some nice "Chin music" if they employ such bush league tactis.

I am all for cheering etc. but not the nonsense and to date I have not encountered that type of behavior at the HS varsity level.

I have umpired games in which teams don't like each other and you put a stop to ANYTHING that could cause a riot, but as mentioned you don't see the "hey Pitcher" or Hey Batter at the HS varsity level.

Pete Booth

[jicecone]

Your absolutely correct, many, many, many, many years ago when I played LL we also took part in what is now called "trash talk", "taunting" or what is now thought of as "bench jockeying". I guess the players had thicker skin then!

Now, in High School, College and Pro rules this is addressed and I know in my games, is strictly enforced. Of course I have never officiated any Pro Ball, but Im sure they are gonna call any day now.??????

As far as Im concerned, it is the responsbilty of the coaches to make sure this does not take place. Sometimes they are so busy Coaching, they forget all about it and a friendly reminder gets them right back on track.

In todays game, it is a good idea to jump on top of these situations before things go haywire. Especially with the costs of these new bats. Heck a good head can easily dent a $150.00 Aluminum Bat.????????

On the serious side, you can have a long day at the field if you let it get out of hand.

[greymule]

Until sometime in the 1950s, even the MLB players got on opposing players a lot, though it was a little more sophisticated than "hey, batter, batter." Richie Ashburn said the insults were constant: the other team was the enemy. So the banter was still going strong when I played in the 1960s. As I remember, most games were a torrent of abuse from both sides; Legion had the most, college the least, but still plenty. Clever, humorous remarks were the most prized. Of course, any opposing player worth his salt wasn't supposed to notice.

But there were bounds: no names, nothing really personal, mostly stuff like, "Are you swingin' it, or is it swingin' you?" "You're bringin' in a reliever? You mean you've actually got somebody worse?" and other such clever digs. You could call the opposing pitcher a short-order cook (one of our guys called every opposing pitcher that), but not the names you hear on prime-time network comedies today.

But that's all gone now. It's discouraged to the point of prohibition in school ball, and I have noticed very little in the college games I've seen. The only exception might be girls' fast-pitch, where they make up cheers that include chants like, "Three and two, pitch, what'cha gonna do pitch? Walk, walk, walk!" But somehow those cheers don't come across as hostile.

One footnote: We have a local slow pitch league virtually all of whose players are from the same ethnic background and culture. The players toss insults at each other the entire game and constantly try to outdo the last guy. From what I understand, this has been going on for generations. It's not trash talk, just silly stuff like picking on the color of some guy's shoes. I admit they are pretty funny sometimes. But that's what everybody expects, and nobody ever seems to mind.

[woolnojg]

Step 1: get the coach to put a lid on it. Quietly, without showing up the offending team.

Step 2: Fed. Rules - This could be construed as an attempt to cause a balk. Lead runner is declared out, game continues.

Check your rule book to get the references correct.

[Jerry]

Having officiated all levels (LL, Federation, High School, College and Pro), very little "banter" is heard or tolerated nowadays. For Federation and High School, there's a "sportsmanship" message that is to be read/paraphrased to coaches prior to the game. I usually say something like, "Root for your own team as much as you can, but I don't want to hear anything directed toward the opponents or the officials in today's contest. Have respect for the coaches, the players, the umpires and the game of baseball. Good luck to both of you."

In youth games, whenever I hear "Hey, batta, batta, batta!" or "Hey, pitcha, pitcha, pitcha!" or clapping of hands by a runner . . . I immediately put a stop to it. Never had a serious argument from anyone for that.

In the Pro's . . . both old-timers as well as the new breed, many/most players, coaches and officials knew each other . . . and often partied together afterwards. Most of the "banter", quite incessant actually, was along the humerous level.

[gsf23]

What about the catcher talking to the batter. I'm not talking about talking to him while the pitch is comming, but as he is getting ready or in between pitches. I've had a catcher that has been doing this since he was a freshman and have never had an umpire tell him stop or tell me to make him stop. He would say things like "man you're big. I'm gonna call a fastball just to see how far you can hit one." Stuff like that. What do you all think

[Jerry]

Many high school and college players belong to summer leagues. As such, many of their friends are on opposing teams. It's not unusual for that type of "banter" to occur and just not between Catcher and Batter. (As opposed to trash talking or verbal interference/obstruction). Catchers talking to batters has gone on since the beginning of time and will continue well after we're all dead and gone. As long as the conversation remains comical, civil and friendly, let's play ball. After all, batters need to learn how to concentrate too. If it appears to intimidate or upset a batter, you can easily put a stop to it by saying, "That's enough banter, son. Let him try to concentrate." No need to make a big deal about it, one way or the other.

[ballsandstrikes]

I do hear some borderline taunting cheers in fast pitch softball. The girls seem to ra ra it up alot more than the guys.

[jicecone]

That is the exact reason we don't let them play Baseball, Their TOO Noisy.

[greymule]

The girls don't tend to mouth off loudly to opponents the way boys do. However, girls can manage to berate an opponent mercilessly without coaches or umpires becoming aware.

Last summer, I noticed that F5 was in tears as she approached her dugout at the change of sides. I asked her what the matter was, but she wouldn't respond. Then one of her teammates told me that the other team (all sweet, nice, local girls) had been disparaging her fingernails and hair since the start of the game.

Apparently, her fingernails were of uneven length and not uniformly painted. I don't know what was "wrong" with her hair.

Yes, I took care of the situation.

[jicecone]

"Apparently, her fingernails were of uneven length and not uniformly painted. I don't know what was "wrong" with her hair."

Hmm, same problem I have with some of my partners!!!!!!!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by greymule

Apparently, her fingernails were of uneven length and not uniformly painted.

Yes, I took care of the situation.

You gave her a manicure?