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Sat Mar 18, 2006, 05:56pm
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High school JV game
No one on, BR hits to LF, she rounds 1B and heads for 2B. The throw to 2B is about 2 feet off the base toward LF in a direct line from 1B/2B. The ball gets past F4 and as F4 turns to pursue the ball the BR overruns 2B and they have contact. There was no attempt by the BR to go for 3B, she just over ran the base. F4 had no chance of retrieving the ball to tag the BR before she took a couple of steps back to 2B (the ball rolled 10 feet or so away from 2B & no one was backing her up). What would you guys have called? 
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Sat Mar 18, 2006, 09:36pm
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While all the criteria was met for OBS, from the way I read the situation, it's still your judgement where the runner should go. From the way I take your description, I would have left the runner at 2nd base. No play was made on her after the OBS, so no dead ball.
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Rick
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Sat Mar 18, 2006, 09:38pm
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This is obstruction. Fielder without the ball, and not in the act of fielding a batted ball impeded a runner. Granted, a runner getting no where positive, but still entitled to unrestricted base running. But, under the circumstances, the award is 2nd base, the base the runner would have earned absent the obstruction.
A smarter runner (obviously this wasn't one) would have attempted 3rd base, as she could not be put out there, by the obstruction rule; if out, then "dead ball" , and award the obstruction penalty of safe at 2nd.
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Sun Mar 19, 2006, 09:33am
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Steve is spot on.
It is OBS. No matter what you believe the runner did, was doing or was going to do, as the umpire, you call OBS. I know it's hard for some people to grasp this (it shouldn't be), but OBS is not a penalty-laden violation. You don't make the call to allow the runner a free-rein on the base paths, but to protect them from being put out because of a defender's mistake.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Sun Mar 19, 2006, 10:15am
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Thanks for the replies.
I didn't call OBS at the time but as I re-read the play in my head I think that I should have. Maybe the runner would have made an attempt to go to 3B if she hadn't been OBS. I doubt that she would have but you never know with these young players.
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Sun Mar 19, 2006, 07:11pm
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I guess I don't have a clear picture of the play. I pictured F4 off the base in the outfield when the ball gets by her. The runner overruns the base into the outfield and as F4 turns to run back into the infield there is a collision, all taking place in the outfield a few steps from the base, no attempt having been made to reach third. How can you call OBS on a runner who has run into the outfield to make contact with a fielder. I say no call.
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Sun Mar 19, 2006, 08:34pm
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Quote:
It is OBS because the fielder doesn't have possession of the ball. A no call leaves the runner hanging out to dry due to a defender impeding their progress. BTW, there is no rule preventing the runner from crossing 2B, running out and around the LF three times and to wherever.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Sun Mar 19, 2006, 09:46pm
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This has to be obstruction! Even if the runner had not intended to advance when the throw was coming toward second once the ball was misplayed she may have had the chance to advance... had it not been for the fielder getting in her way without the ball in her possession. Nothin like fun at the ole' ball park! Take third base young lady!
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Mon Mar 20, 2006, 08:02am
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Quote:
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon Mar 20, 2006, 09:38am
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Quote:
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Mar 20, 2006, 09:52am
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All we've learned from this thread is that there are a good number of people who don't understand obstruction at all, nor how to implement it.
This is TEXTBOOK obstruction, and the runner is protected from being tagged out between 2nd and 3rd. But this does not (I had to erase "obviously" here, because apparently it's not obvious to everyone) mean the runner gets 3rd base. The PROTECTION given an obstruction is one thing. The AWARD is a separate thing. The award in this case is 2nd base.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Mon Mar 20, 2006, 11:22am
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"The ball gets past F4 and as F4 turns to pursue the ball the BR overruns 2B and they have contact. There was no attempt by the BR to go for 3B, she just over ran the base. F4 had no chance of retrieving the ball to tag the BR before she took a couple of steps back to 2B (the ball rolled 10 feet or so away from 2B & no one was backing her up)".
I was surprised when I read this play, because I just seen the very same thing happen twice in the last week here in TN. As the old saying goes...One learns something new everyday. In the description of the play I wrongly thought the runner should be awarded third? Why did I think this? Because the runner saw the ball was booted by F4 and had rolled about ten feet farther away from 3rd base, since the throw came in from left field. If these are 10 and under players the runner would have had a good shot at making it to third by the time F4, or any other fielder, had run down the ball and tried to make a play at third. The fielder made contact without having possession of the ball after the runner already passed 2nd base and the ball was rolling into the out-field. This exact same situation happened in two different games I was wathching last week...(one was a practice game with no Umpire, and the coach awarded the runner 3rd) and the other game an Umpire awarded 3rd base. Both girls were awarded 3rd even though both runners went back to 2nd after the obstruction. The Coach and the Umpire, were both wrong. I would have been wrong too. This will be my second year umpiring. My first 3 games start April 3rd. I will be going over the rule book intently for the next several days. I now know, and I'm glad I read this thread, that the runner is only protected from being put out between 2nd and 3rd in this situation, but does not get 3rd base. The award in this case is 2nd base. I know if I'm ever coaching 3rd base in 10 & under and this situation happens I'm telling my girl to advance, once I see it get away from F4 and contact is made, for what has she got to lose? If she makes it safely to 3rd she stays there, if she is thrown out she gets awarded 2nd base. Thanks guys! Especially Mike and mcrowder. I have a question. Runners on 1st and 2nd... a batter hits a ball to the pitcher and another fielder obstructs the girl that's advancing to 3rd base. The pitcher throws the ball to 3rd before the runner reaches the base. The obstructed runner cannot be awarded 2nd as 2nd already has a girl there. In this case is she awarded 3rd because of the Obstruction? Thanks again...
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Mon Mar 20, 2006, 11:44am
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Quote:
Remember, the penalty for OBS is the umpire awards the base to the runner that, in his/her judgement, they felt the runner would have obtained had the OBS not occurred.
__________________
Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Mar 20, 2006, 12:52pm
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"In the play you present here, even if there was no force, I would probably have awarded the runner 3rd. (Of course, this is a HTBT play.) However, in the scenario you present, yes, the runner would receive 3rd". Remember, the penalty for OBS is the umpire awards the base to the runner that, in his/her judgement, they felt the runner would have obtained had the OBS not occurred. Thanks, That's what I thought, but you say (probably award 3rd, HTBT) You also said ...(the penalty for OBS is the umpire awards the base to the runner that, in his/her judgement, they felt the runner would have obtained had the OBS not occurred.). So if the umpire does not think the runner would have been safe (had there been no obstruction) would he/she not award 3rd base? Let's say in the play I presented the pitcher gets the ball immediately and throws to 3rd and the ball gets there way ahead of the runner, who was only slightly brushed by the obstructing fielder. (runner hardly lost a step) If 2nd is not open, an umpire may or may not award the obstructed runner 3rd? He may call the runner out? If 2nd is open the runner is protected between 2nd and 3rd, and cannot be called out. I have to get this clear in my mind. It's not always easy to understand the rules as written. I have to hurry my grand baby is in a hurry to go out to lunch so Poppa can get her a happy meal...  Thanks!
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