How many coaches have you tossed?

[booker227]

College, none. (They know how, when and where to discuss) High School, none. ( most know the rules) Travel ball: Pony, none. (experienced) NSA, 3. (some knuckleheads) ASA, 6,(all in one tournament, two diffrent teams) Community,6 (two grandparents for swearing at me in the presence of the players, four coaches...same team
My pregame with head coaches: don't argue judegment calls, if it's a rule problem, we'll discuss it and get it right, and keep you assistant coaches under control

[MA Softball Ump]

Booker227... "... two grandparents for swearing at me in the presence of the players,..."
You tossed the coaches for what the fans did???

[mcrowder]

I think he tossed the GRANDPARENTS, even if the thread had really only asked about coaches.

[tcblue13]

SC Ump
You are tough on the churches.

It is kind of a shame that church leagues tend to be the one's you would least expect the trouble and yet that's where it comes from. I played church league ball in SC and remember well how it can be. The worst was when I was playing in VA though and the guys on my church team were the worst in the league. They got away with a ton of stuff

[streamdoc]

Not a coach as per the original question, but I just had my first ejection - a catcher no less. And I thought the PUs and F2s were supposed to work together.

This one had been all over me the whole game, a 16 Gold Championship game in a weekend tourny a couple of weeks ago. Up until this happened I was letting her comments role off like water on a duck. Then the obstruction at home happens, runner was able to not get tagged, backed up, and get in a run-down. My partner (SRW) and I get that squared away (I won't go into the mistake that we made on the award, which actually favored the obstructing team). F2, and the coach have a major problem with the OB call. She's chirping the whole time as the next 2 pitches come in (both strikes). Runners on 1st and 3rd, and F2 tells me (very sarcastically) to puh-lease watch the runners leaving early. I quietly tell her that I have a partner out there, and that if she wants me to keep calling the strikes that her pitcher is throwing, I can't possible keep my eyes on both runners. To that I get something like, "that's f-ing B.S. Bye bye F2. Coach comes out inquiring. He's still hot about the OB call. When I tell about the F-bomb, he promptly turns to his fans and asked, "did you guys hear her say anything?" Some in my group have said that he should have been gone at that point. I don't take any pride in running anyone from a game (coaches, fans, and especially players). As a result, I've probably taken more than my share of abuse. This game was quickly getting out of hand, and I just couldn't give the catcher any more rope. I do feel some pride in how my partner and I handled the coach during the ensuing discussion.

Bottom-line 3yrs umpiring, 1 player gone.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

SC Ump
You are tough on the churches.

The first adult ball team I ever played on was a small town church team. It was great, we had a blast and I honestly can't ever remember an argument.

Perhaps there is some other dynamic in larger churches in larger cities. Though I'm no longer a church goer, perhaps I still expect a higher standard from the folks that respresent those institutions.

In a high school tournament this past week-end, we called a penalty strike for a slap hitter wiping out the front line of the batters box. (New NFHS rule.) It was called against the local private religious school. In a fairly quiet discussion, the coach told my partner that it was a "bullshìt call".

I agree with my grandma's words, "churches are for sinners, not just saints." Maybe these are just the types of instances that stand out the most.

[JFA67]

I can only speak to FP. I have both umpired and coached.
I have never allowed any coach enough rope to hang him/herself.
In NFHS, I have restricted an overly excited coach or 2 to the bench.
No college coach has ever crossed the line from rules discussions to a personal attack.
Summer coaches can be knuckleheads. However, I haven't ejected any.

[mcrowder]

No offense meant here, but I don't think there should be any pride involved in saying none, just as there shouldn't be for saying 500. Game management is one thing, but if you're considering yourself "proud to say none", I suspect you've not done so when it was appropriate, and made some other umpire's life worse.

I've presided over the ejection of 11 coaches - about 1 per year.

[Chess Ref]

1 cent for each year I have been umpiring.

I know that I have just started out in all this stuff but I am now laying the groundwork for how i am going to deal with coaches.

I strongly agree with mcrowder on this. We, the officials let too much go. In the softball arena I haven't seen many coaches out of control but lots and lots of chirping. Speaking NFHS we are expected to act professional and appropriate but the coaches act anyway they seem fit. In the back of the Rulebook there is a code of ethics and i believe it is our job to make sure the coaches adhere to it. Not beg,badger,reason, or plead with them to act like adults and role models.

I do several sports and the coaches act as badly as the officials let them. Obviously BB is the worse but i just had a game where i had a coach that was acting in a manner that needed to be addressed. I didn't know what to do so I talked to her. If i could have i would have issued a Technical foul.

I started a SItch specific thread and my perception was I hould just leave the coaches. Now I am thinking but they are breaking the rules on conduct
and I want to address it in a manner that is logical and rules-based. Not pleading, begging, cajoling or soothing their little ruffled feathers cause a call didn"t go their way.

Rant Off

[JFA67]

Originally posted by mcrowder
No offense meant here, but I don't think there should be any pride involved in saying none, just as there shouldn't be for saying 500. Game management is one thing, but if you're considering yourself "proud to say none", I suspect you've not done so when it was appropriate, and made some other umpire's life worse.

I've presided over the ejection of 11 coaches - about 1 per year.

Interesting how you can suspect without knowing anything about me. Or my experience level.

For the record, I won't let any coach question my integrity, use profanity, insult me etc, etc.

I have canned a few baseball coaches. Since this is a softball forum I didn't count them. Same goes for players.

I say "proud to say none" because I have managed the game well enough not to have use the last resort and eject a softball coach... yet.

[JFA67]

Originally posted by Chess Ref
1 cent for each year I have been umpiring.

I know that I have just started out in all this stuff but I am now laying the groundwork for how i am going to deal with coaches.

I strongly agree with mcrowder on this......

I don't disagree with either of you, my point is if you handle situations properly and practice preventive officating, ejections should be few and far between.

[Steve M]

OK, on the amended question of "Or maybe, "how coaches have you shown the door to"?"

Let's see - in the last 5 years - which covers over 1400 games of fast pitch
College - 1 - and he was fired at year's end, partly for his repeated run ins with umpires.
scholastic ball - none, with 1 restriction
summer ball - 5

I agree with JFA's statement that "ejections should be few and far between."

Game management, appearance, showing that you've got skill & expertise, and what I'll call a 'command presence' all work together to keep the number of ejections low. But like the obscene, I'll know it when I see it - and I'll know how it's to be handled.

Addition - I forgot to say that I've effectively used the old FU call 3 or 4 times in that time span - and that probably save the ejection number from being higher.


[Edited by Steve M on Mar 16th, 2006 at 09:11 PM]

[Little Jimmy]

A little late but...

Stern warning for me means that for most of the game I just smile at stupid things coaches do. When something starts to get edgey the smile comes off, I talk to the coach face to face and say the funs over.

I must admit that I think I've been lucky. There's been many a time that I watched as a spectator and saw things that went way over the line. And of course the perspective from the stands is different from the field

[Antonella]

Thank you so much for explaining.
(Thanks to Mike, also! )

Ciao

In 15 years of NFHS and ASA I have asked two coaches to leave the field, both in ASA games. I tell them in pre-game if the head coach has a question and approaches us properly we don’t mine talking. I don’t argue with coaches. I let them vent and when they are finished I give them an answer. At that point the discussion is over and I tell them “Okay coach lets play ball” and walk away. The two I asked to leave didn’t understand the discussion was over.