Is this a catch?

Dakota · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:08pm

Interesting discussion on the eteamz coach's board...

NCAA rules (AZ v TX game).

Assume (to fill in the scenario):

Batter hits a long fly ball that is clearly going over the temporary fence. Fielder leaps after the fly ball, knocking over the section of the fence to the right of the section the ball is clearing. With her entire body behind the fence, but in the air, she catches the ball.

Is this a catch or a home run?

The ruling of the game umpires was home run.

Also, comments on ASA, NFHS, AFA, whatever...

CecilOne · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:22pm

I thought (think) that as long as the fielder does not touch the "ground", a catch is legal. "Ground" meaning fixed parts of the environment outside the fence, or did they judge the spectators to be "stands" and she touched them before the catch?

Or, a ground rule ... ?

alphaump · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:41pm

I dont think Ild make a call til her part of the play was over.
She looks air-born. I cant tell from this shot alone. If this is all I had, its an out.

Steve M · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:41pm

I think I'd be going with no catch, agreeing with the call that was made. NCAA Rule 1, Section 22 defines what is a catch and what is not a catch. Looking at the picture, that fence is knocked over and on the ground - the field has been extended. Looks like the fielder went through the fence as opposed to going over it.

mcrowder · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:47pm

I'll ask you guys this and let you revise your answers if necessary...

Where did the fielder land? And what would you call if a player made a catch and landed in the stands?

Dakota · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:47pm

I wasn't there; a number of the posters on the other board at least saw it on TV, but assume the following (which I believe to be what actually happened):

The fielder's feet left the ground in live ball territory.

She crashed into the fence section, knocking it down, but not touching anything herself other than the fence while the fence was still upright.

She caught the ball in flight while she was fully airborne and fully over DBT.

She did not touch anything in DBT until she came down with the ball in her glove.

She maintained control of the ball after coming down.

NSABlue · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:48pm

I attended the NCAA D-III world series a few years ago and had a very similar situation. An outfielder ran thru the same type of temporary fence and made the catch standing about 5 feet beyond the fence line. Ruling was a Homerun.

Couple of thoughts here, If I were a coach I would sure want this girl in my outfield. What effort to make this catch!!

Great Photo but I'm wondering about those fans sitting behind the brick wall. They all seem a little "stiff".

david

mcrowder · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:50pm

I have an additional question.

Other than the fan trying to kick the player in the stomach, what are all of the fans in the background looking at?!?!?! (And the photo from the brick fence up looks doctored, doesn't it?)

NSABlue · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:52pm

(And the photo from the brick fence up looks doctored, doesn't it?)

That's what I meant by a little "Stiff"

David

mcrowder · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:55pm

Guess you typed that as I was sending the other one in.

Dakota · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 04:56pm

The same fans were in the second photo showing the player after the catch. I think it was some kind of backdrop.

Here is the link to the website that has the photos:

Az pics

AtlUmpSteve · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 06:15pm

NCAA Rule 1-22.b states that "A fielder who falls over or through a fence AFTER making a catch shall be credited with the catch.

Rule 2-10.b adds that a catch shall NOT be credited if "(2) The fielder is standing on the fence as it is lying on the ground when she contacts the ball."

Okay, so while still not crystal clear, I conclude that if it is a catch only if made before falling over or through the fence, it is NOT a catch if it is made after running through the fence. And, that the fence down does NOT expand the playing field (another rules difference from ASA). My reading is that she must have contact with the ball before collapsing the fence; which did not happen, as best I can tell from the pics.

debeau · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 07:40pm

Home run

greymule · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 08:46pm

I think if you're standing on a knocked-down fence, you can still make a legal catch. So I'd give her the catch unless her foot had touched beyond the knocked-down fence. But if she knocked the fence down and didn't step past it till the ball was in her glove, it's an out.

However, from this picture you can't tell for sure what happened, so it's HTBT.

In the stands, the guy in the second row second from the left was on "America's Most Wanted" last night.

Steve M · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2006, 09:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
I think if you're standing on a knocked-down fence, you can still make a legal catch. So I'd give her the catch unless her foot had touched beyond the knocked-down fence. But if she knocked the fence down and didn't step past it till the ball was in her glove, it's an out.

Now think about this for a minute. Lgoc sez that If you are standing on a knocked down fence, you have extended the field.

The NCAA defines this situation on page 19 and states that it is not a catch.
The 2005 ASA book states on page 142 that standing on a fence that is laying on the ground is OK, it's a catch & out.
Fed sez that it's OK to stand on the fence as long as the fence is not horizontal. There's a case book play - 2.10.5 Situation A.

So, NCAA rules for this play, homerun.
Fed rules for this play, homerun.
ASA rules for this play, catch & out since she caught it before hitting the ground.
Gotta see if Bennett has this difference in his rules differences.