The confines of the field

[Andy]

This came up in our HS rules meeting tonight. NFHS rules.

Define the "confines" of the field.

Specifically regarding rule 1-7-3. Any non-adult warming up a pitcher at any location within the confines of the field shall wear an approved catcher's helmet/mask combination.

Casebook play 10.1.2 addresses this situation both within the confines and out of the confines of the field. If the umpire observes a non-adult warming up a pitcher within the confines of the field, the umpire is to require the non-adult to wear the required equipment. If it is outside the confines, the umpire may inform the coach.

Casebook play 1.7.3 also addresses this situation by saying that players and team personel are not to be outside of the confines of the field.

My interpretation would be that the confines of the field are any area that I can see while standing on the field itself.

Any other thoughts?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Andy
This came up in our HS rules meeting tonight. NFHS rules.

Define the "confines" of the field.

Specifically regarding rule 1-7-3. Any non-adult warming up a pitcher at any location within the confines of the field shall wear an approved catcher's helmet/mask combination.

Casebook play 10.1.2 addresses this situation both within the confines and out of the confines of the field. If the umpire observes a non-adult warming up a pitcher within the confines of the field, the umpire is to require the non-adult to wear the required equipment. If it is outside the confines, the umpire may inform the coach.

Casebook play 1.7.3 also addresses this situation by saying that players and team personel are not to be outside of the confines of the field.

My interpretation would be that the confines of the field are any area that I can see while standing on the field itself.

Any other thoughts?

And, if outside the fences, what if the "non-adult" warming up a pitcher is that girl's 17yo brother or anyone not associated with the team?

[whiskers_ump]

Andy,

I agree with you, and that is the way we handle it here.

Mike,

Here we don't allow "students or non team members to be anywhere the players are". Had problems in the past with
"fans" being near the fences "talking" to the players. The
coaches are real helpful in handling these situations. They
want their player to concretrate on the game and not boy friends or "coaching parents". On site administraters are
very helpful also.

However, you do have a good point.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump

Mike,

Here we don't allow "students or non team members to be anywhere the players are". Had problems in the past with
"fans" being near the fences "talking" to the players. The
coaches are real helpful in handling these situations. They
want their player to concretrate on the game and not boy friends or "coaching parents". On site administraters are
very helpful also.

However, you do have a good point.

Glen,

Don't you have enough to do on the field?
What is outside the fence is not my concern. Sounds like a coach and/or school administrator issue, not that of the umpire. And I believe, according to NFHS, you are not playing the game without both being in attendance.



[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on Jan 17th, 2006 at 03:16 PM]

[mcrowder]

I think that as far as the rulebook is concerned, the "confines" of the field is just that - the area CONFINED by fences, lines, cones, whatever. I can see extending this to an enclosed pitching area that is attached to the field, but specifically designed to be part of this particular field (we have one such warmup area locally), even if there's a fence between them.

Outside that, don't get rabbit ears (or rabbit eyes in this case) - we have enough responsibilities dealing with what happens ON the field to worry about anything outside the field. And if brass came to tacks, you'd really have no authority ruling on something that occurred outside the field in almost every case.

[CecilOne]

I treat the "bullpen" standard warmup area as part of the confiness of teh field, even if confined only by concept. I believe that is the intent of the rule because we know NFHS leans toward safety.

Beyond that, if I notice such action, I say "Coach, the warmup catcher isn't wearing a mask"; in a friendly advice tone. Also because we know NFHS leans toward safety plus we don't want a game delayed.

Yes, I have enough to do, but recognition of this takes about 1.5 seconds and mentioning it, in a safety-first situation, not much longer.

[mcrowder]

If the warmup area is withing our jurisdiction (within the "confines"), I agree with you.

The problem arises when it's not "within the confines" and you try to assert your authority. Granted - MOST of the time, "Coach, the warmup catcher doesn't have a mask on", is simply going to get a mask on that catcher.

But there WILL be that time when the coach (or DD's brother, or whoever), for whatever reason (stupid, lack of equipment, simple beligerence, perhaps his impression of you as an OOO (warranted or not)), refuses to do anything about it. If you have no authority, you've just opened up a confrontation for which you have no basis or standing - which can be a can of worms.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by Andy
Casebook play 10.1.2 ... If it is outside the confines, the umpire may inform the coach.

Casebook play 1.7.3 ... players and team personel are not to be outside of the confines of the field.

I agree with others that if a players is warming up outside the field of play and dugouts, that this would be outside the confines of the field and thus I should just inform the coach.

And I see the conflict that this should never happen because of the casebook play 1.7.3.

I have been taught to treat it as "don't let the players mingle in the stands." If they are warming up outside the fences, just say something like, "Coach, you might want to have your catcher put on a mask while warming up the pitcher."

[SWFLguy]

yes--by all means mention it to the coach
if the pitcher is warming up outside the fences/field
and the catcher has no helmet/mask---
make sure others hear you say it, then
the coach is responsible for their safety !

[Edited by SWFLguy on Jan 17th, 2006 at 08:17 PM]

[varefump]

This brings up a good point.

Nowhere in the NFHS rulebook is the definition of "Confines of the Field".

Mary Struckoff has suggested that I write up a definition and submit it as a rule change.

I believe that it must include the playing field (live-ball territory), both dugouts, and both bullpens.

I will gladly take other suggestions.

Thanks.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by varefump
This brings up a good point.

Nowhere in the NFHS rulebook is the definition of "Confines of the Field".

Mary Struckoff has suggested that I write up a definition and submit it as a rule change.

I believe that it must include the playing field (live-ball territory), both dugouts, and both bullpens.

I will gladly take other suggestions.

Thanks.

Any area used by players and coaches during the game, for game-related reasons.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by mcrowder
If the warmup area is withing our jurisdiction (within the "confines"), I agree with you.

The problem arises when it's not "within the confines" and you try to assert your authority. Granted - MOST of the time, "Coach, the warmup catcher doesn't have a mask on", is simply going to get a mask on that catcher.

But there WILL be that time when the coach (or DD's brother, or whoever), for whatever reason (stupid, lack of equipment, simple beligerence, perhaps his impression of you as an OOO (warranted or not)), refuses to do anything about it. If you have no authority, you've just opened up a confrontation for which you have no basis or standing - which can be a can of worms.

I didn't say anything about asserting authority or confrontation; but specifically "friendly advice". Most coaches I know don't want the players taking the risk.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by Andy
This came up in our HS rules meeting tonight. NFHS rules.

Define the "confines" of the field.

Specifically regarding rule 1-7-3. Any non-adult warming up a pitcher at any location within the confines of the field shall wear an approved catcher's helmet/mask combination.

Casebook play 10.1.2 addresses this situation both within the confines and out of the confines of the field. If the umpire observes a non-adult warming up a pitcher within the confines of the field, the umpire is to require the non-adult to wear the required equipment. If it is outside the confines, the umpire may inform the coach.

Casebook play 1.7.3 also addresses this situation by saying that players and team personel are not to be outside of the confines of the field.

My interpretation would be that the confines of the field are any area that I can see while standing on the field itself.

Any other thoughts?

How about posting thsi on the NFHS Forum, as well?

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by varefump
...include the playing field (live-ball territory), both dugouts, and both bullpens.

What about when there is no bullpen... e.g. "We always warm up behind the shed out there."

I don't want to be responsible for requiring a catcher to wear protective gear when she is somewhere I cannot see her.

[Andy]

Originally posted by CecilOne

How about posting this on the NFHS Forum, as well? [/QUOTE]

Good idea, Cecil. I will do that.

In the meantime, I also posed this question to Emily Alexander, who sits on the NFHS Softball Committee. Here is her response:

Andy,
It used to be that the confines of field were within the fence - all fair and foul territory but not non-playable territory like an off-to-the-side batting cage, bullpen or the like.

Casebook play 1.7.3 seems to challenge that thinking. If players cannot be outside the confines but it is okay to be along the fence outside the field warming up then is along the fence within the confines.

My guess is casebook play 1.7.3 should say: cannot be outside the dugout except for legitimate warming up areas (or something like that).

I will try to get a letter off to NFHS for a clarification. In the meantime, instruct the umpires to require the proper equipment inside the fence and inform the coach for violations outside the fence.

I will post any follow-up I receive.